Do you need a rogue?

[SunMadeOfIce]

I usually feel limited in D&D games when I don't have a rogue, due to traps and locked content. With only 4 party members at a time in this game, do you think 1 slot is going to be mandatory for a rogue, or can you get by without one?

[Panic Fire]

Any class can handle lockpicking and trap disarming as well as pickpocketing as it all falls under the Sleight Of Hand Skill which is under Dexterity.

Being proficient in it (again technically any class can) allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the check.

Rogues can be very very good at it of course but pretty much any character can handle it. Shadow Heart for instance can pretty much do all the lockpicking and trapping and sleight of hand in the game as well as self cast guidance or cat's grace on top of that.

[Sardaukar]

For lock picking yeah.

For traps... Well not all traps but the mines in the ground traps can be handled by shooting them with arrows.

[bf1tz.psu]

rogue isn't needed, just someone with decent slight of hand. So far there has been anywhere where a rogue was needed to progress anything other than a few optional dialog and story content.

[bf1tz.psu]

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

For lock picking yeah.

For traps... Well not all traps but the mines in the ground traps can be handled by shooting them with arrows.

can disarm traps now... even with mage hand. I just cleared the hags lair traps with laezels and gales mage hands... on fail they dont set them off because they are levitating. Another reason why mage hand is OP.

[Starwight/ttv]

Originally posted by bf1tz.psu:

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

For lock picking yeah.

For traps... Well not all traps but the mines in the ground traps can be handled by shooting them with arrows.

can disarm traps now... even with mage hand. I just cleared the hags lair traps with laezels and gales mage hands... on fail they dont set them off because they are levitating. Another reason why mage hand is OP.

It's not OP, it's 5e RAW

[Jack Hawklight]

When I did a ranger playthrough I had no rogue in the party. Ranger was proficient with the rogue stuff and also had high dex. He had no trouble unlocking chests and disarming traps.

[Alealexi]

No, you will not need a rogue. If you don't want Astarion you can use the Trickery Domain Cleric companion you can get as her subclass is basically rogue lite. With her background she is proficient in slight of hands & stealth so she can do most things a rogue can do. She has a decent DEX so she will be just fine. Along with guidance cantrip and other spells she gets she can do more.

[belangf]

Ranger is a good choice because you can get proficiency with thieves tools. Also hunter's mark is somewhat equivalent to sneak attacks for extra damage.

Rogues are supposed to get Expertise, where they add double their proficiency bonus to chosen skills. So rogues may end up being more useful in the finished game and at higher levels.

[guard65]

A low level this true. Not to mention that they butcher the Rogue class by giving away all the class abilities as freeware in the game. Everyone can pick locks, everyone can hide in shadows, everyone can disarm traps, everyone can detect traps with insight alone... None of these abilities exist in the other classes of 5e.

My best hope is that they fix this and not by giving the class additional non-rogue or roguish abilities to try to fix the class in their eyes after gutting it. I doubt they will make these abilities scale with rogue but not for any other class making them useful again.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by guard65:

A low level this true. Not to mention that they butcher the Rogue class by giving away all the class abilities as freeware in the game. Everyone can pick locks, everyone can hide in shadows, everyone can disarm traps, everyone can detect traps with insight alone... None of these abilities exist in the other classes of 5e.

My best hope is that they fix this and not by giving the class additional non-rogue or roguish abilities to try to fix the class in their eyes after gutting it. I doubt they will make these abilities scale with rogue but not for any other class making them useful again.

hUH?... Bro... everyone can everything you just described in 5e. I think you don't know the game that well as you think you do. Everyone can hide or disengage by using their main action, but only rogues can do it as a bonus action thanks to cunning action. Monks can disengage using their bonus action as well by spending a ki point. Traps can be detected by anyone if you have a high enough perception, survival, or investigation depending on what your DM wants you to roll. Disarming Traps & lockpicking can be used by anyone, but rogues are naturally proficient in it so they will get their proficiency bonus to the rolls. You can also be proficient with thieves' tools in another class by choosing a background that gives you proficiency like the criminal/spy or urchin background.

There are only a few things that I don't like which is disengage & hide being a bonus action for everyone. Sneak attack being an active ability instead of a passive. Along with a few minor things, but I can live with those.

[guard65]

I quite after 2e and it sounds like they board gamed D&D into checkers from go. Still stand by that butchered the rogue class on that note, even if it was done in 5e, it doesn't make the stew taste any better.

[R3sistance]

Lots of people are saying slight of hand for this is 5E RAW (Rules As Written), but 5E RAW specifically uses Thieves tools for this, not sleight of hand.

You can get Thieves tools proficiency from background as one option so in 5E any class can in fact do this, Generally however you either want a good Dexterity/Wisdom build (usually ranger, druid or monk) or a class with lots of proficiency/expertise (Rogue or Bard) for covering these types of activities.

Overall in BG3, I'd say you could also easily switch a rogues job to any of these.

[Hobocop]

You can obtain the necessary skills on any class to do the 'rogue things' through Backgrounds. Rogues on TT just do it best with the ability to pick thieves' tools as an expertise as well as having the most expertise picks as a class.

[Metallicus]

Shadowheart has proficiency is all rogue skills and can replace the Ranger or Rogue in your party. She can pick locks, sneak and disarm traps like a pro.

[guard65]

I get the background (if locks have no skill levels) yet my wizard with outlander background and no skills and can pick locks and disarm traps in the game now.