Patch 7 effectively allows Durge to save a certain someone...

[Rain]

You have to go out of your way to knock her out, but she shows up in the second act and you get to see her questline fully.

Was quite surprising. Before Patch 7 I knocked her out and she never showed up later on. Now she has. Guess Larian really went out of their way to allow it to happen.

[♠.brT]

Are you sure she didn't showed up before patch 7 if you knocked her out? I never did a durge run before patch 7 so i don't know, but i remember people talking about this idea of knocking her out as a way to ensure you could get her reward in act2.

[Siodog]

You can also kill durge and advance

[Kamuizin]

Any knock out tactics is metagaming and bug exploitation, which is a shame we have to resort, so we make our game a bit more palatable.

[Kadh2000]

Eh, I just kill her and suffer the consequences.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Any knock out tactics is metagaming and bug exploitation, which is a shame we have to resor, so we make our game a bit more palatable.

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Any knock out tactics is metagaming and bug exploitation, which is a shame we have to resor, so we make our game a bit more palatable.

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

It's metagaming. At that point in history, your character has no reason to kill everyone but just knock her down because you can recruit her later. You may disagree with me, but if it's metagaming (and you just described metagaming), it's an exploit.

[pirate135246]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Originally posted by wtiger27:

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

It's metagaming. At that point in history, your character has no reason to kill everyone but just knock her down because you can recruit her later. You may disagree with me, but if it's metagaming (and you just described metagaming), it's an exploit.

its not metagaming, there is an entire scripted event and dialogue tied to it. It also does make sense narratively depending on your character and their motives.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Originally posted by wtiger27:

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

It's metagaming. At that point in history, your character has no reason to kill everyone but just knock her down because you can recruit her later. You may disagree with me, but if it's metagaming (and you just described metagaming), it's an exploit.

You can call it that if you want. But you are wrong, considering Larian added it specifically for that purpose. To knock a enemy out, instead of killing them. So it is what I called it. A design feature which the player can choose to use or not.

If you think it is wrong, then don't do it. But there is a "non lethal" option you can select to use with your weapons.

[solaris32]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Originally posted by wtiger27:

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

It's metagaming. At that point in history, your character has no reason to kill everyone but just knock her down because you can recruit her later. You may disagree with me, but if it's metagaming (and you just described metagaming), it's an exploit.

Then don't do it. Simple. That's what makes this game so amazing because there's so many ways to play and so many options. I think strength builds having strength as a dump stat and then using the strength elixirs is lame and metagaming, so you know what I do instead of complaining on the forums? I don't use them!

[Kamuizin]

Eh, got a lot of criticize here!

Gonna just answer generic to everyone: I'm not against metagaming. For powergame and build we naturally play, replay and thus know where to find x, how to build y... etc.. That's natural.

But, one thing is a build, another is guiding story through metagaming.

Am i forbbiding you all to do it? Gods, no! Am i criticizing who does that? Hell, also no! I'm complaing solely on the fact that Minthara should be accessed through a proprer story path, instead of just knocked down for "reasons" while i massacre everyone else.

Had the dialogues somehow give away the fact that she could be useful later, or that she shouldn't be killed or maybe give insights that she would join us later, i would be ok with the knockdown as the sole method for Tiefling aligned parties to recruit her. Let's be real, do you people knockdown every character in the game, or just Minthara, Alfira and, maybe, the masked people in Ethel's lair (apart of pissed off merchants and random citizens)?

So, yes, i see recruitment knockdown as metagaming and i see this kind of metagaming as an exploit. If i'm right or wrong, that's just whoever opinions and i stand by my statement, which, by another side, is also my personal opinion only. WIll i do it? That's up to me. My game my rules, cos we're just arguing theoretically here.

[Soulwind]

Depends on exactly who you mean.

If you mean a certain Drow Bad-Mommy, that was before Patch 7 (patch 6 maybe? don't really remember exactly when) and doesn't matter if you're the Durge or not.

Patch 7 did add some additional dialog with her after you recruit her though.

If you mean a certain Tiefling Bard, then it's been that way since almost forever; but yeah you do have to be playing the Durge for that one.

[Lefurtif126]

Personally i don't care about metagaming shenanigans, they just meet their fate the way Larian intended.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

It works perfectly well with Minthara and even has a quest chain to make sense afterwards. It's not a exploit. It's programmed into the game as design feature one can choose to do or not. Depending if you want her later as a companion and still do a good play run.

No, it was an exploit that the devs later wrote into the game as allowable.

It seems pretty clear to me that the Patch 7 "add Alfira to your party" thing was the devs' way of definitively making the point that in their vision for the game Alfira is not a permanent companion. And that you are supposed to kill her in a Durge run. But even so, they didn't actually block people from the "save Alfira" knockout method.

In a way, the Alfira thing seems to be similar to the way the devs finally reacted to all the people complaining about "boob physics" by letting the penises bounce around instead. Kind of a "stop asking us for this or we'll make the point to you that we deliberately didn't want to do it".

[Fliqpy]

Originally posted by Rain:

You have to go out of your way to knock her out, but she shows up in the second act and you get to see her questline fully.

Was quite surprising. Before Patch 7 I knocked her out and she never showed up later on. Now she has. Guess Larian really went out of their way to allow it to happen.

Glad they made it easier to save her. Unfortunately I don't care and I let her die every time. The Dragonborn that replaces her might be weird but I'm biased in favor of Dragonborns (cuz they got shafted hard from how late they were put into the game) and I don't care.

[dasrachadsy]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Eh, got a lot of criticize here!

Gonna just answer generic to everyone: I'm not against metagaming. For powergame and build we naturally play, replay and thus know where to find x, how to build y... etc.. That's natural.

But, one thing is a build, another is guiding story through metagaming.

Am i forbbiding you all to do it? Gods, no! Am i criticizing who does that? Hell, also no! I'm complaing solely on the fact that Minthara should be accessed through a proprer story path, instead of just knocked down for "reasons" while i massacre everyone else.

Had the dialogues somehow give away the fact that she could be useful later, or that she shouldn't be killed or maybe give insights that she would join us later, i would be ok with the knockdown as the sole method for Tiefling aligned parties to recruit her. Let's be real, do you people knockdown every character in the game, or just Minthara, Alfira and, maybe, the masked people in Ethel's lair (apart of pissed off merchants and random citizens)?

So, yes, i see recruitment knockdown as metagaming and i see this kind of metagaming as an exploit. If i'm right or wrong, that's just whoever opinions and i stand by my statement, which, by another side, is also my personal opinion only. WIll i do it? That's up to me. My game my rules, cos we're just arguing theoretically here.

knocking out enemies instead of killing them is a game feature? it makes perfect sense to reward more pacifist style players with some different outcomes of enemies they defeated but didnt kill showing up again later.. i dont think you thought this one through.