How To Use "Friends" Properly?

[GrandMajora]

I was hoping to use this spell on a crowd control / non-violent route spell caster in future playthroughs and builds. Only to discover that when the spell wears off, the victim nearly always turns hostile. I used it during the meeting with Zevlor to convince him and the mercenary to settle their dispute peacefully, instead of knocking one of them out. But when I deactivated the spell and went to talk to Zevlor and receive his quest from him, he immediately went on the offensive as soon as I walked into his office.

I was forced to kill him in self defense!

If this is going to be a problem every time, I'd like to know about it. Because as it stands right now, Friends seems to be reserved exclusively for dialogue with people you'll never meet again. Which is borderline impossible to predict on a blind play through!

[Persk1760]

I think one of the way to use the spell is to manipulate eventual foes you wish to dispatch. I consider it somewhat of an 'evil' spell, and thus I think it fits right with a badass diabolical playthrough. So, I figure that, paradoxically, this spell is meant to be used on enemies! :)

[SnarkOne]

The spell has been reworked several times in EA because of glitches/bugs. I think it's going to happen several more times due to inconvenient mechanical kinks in implementation.

Right now, I just suggest to avoid using the spell, usnless you don't mind combat with the people you use it on.

[Harukage]

It is working as intended. I am prety sure the description tells you that target is aware of your manipulation, so that target will not be happy about your actions later naturally. It is a exactly low level spell that is made to manipulate people you will never meet later.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Harukage:

It is working as intended. I am prety sure the description tells you that target is aware of your manipulation, so that target will not be happy about your actions later naturally. It is a exactly low level spell that is made to manipulate people you will never meet later.

It's not as if I asked him to steal for me, or buy beer and smokes for a gang of teenagers.

I used the spell to diffuse a volatile situation which would have resulted in violence between Zevlor and the human. Even if I did use magic to accomplish it, somebody like him should have recognized I had good reason / intentions for doing so.

[Indure]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Harukage:

It is working as intended. I am prety sure the description tells you that target is aware of your manipulation, so that target will not be happy about your actions later naturally. It is a exactly low level spell that is made to manipulate people you will never meet later.

It's not as if I asked him to steal for me, or buy beer and smokes for a gang of teenagers.

I used the spell to diffuse a volatile situation which would have resulted in violence between Zevlor and the human. Even if I did use magic to accomplish it, somebody like him should have recognized I had good reason / intentions for doing so.

Would you be okay with one of the companions removing your ability to make decisions and bending to their desires even if it was for a "good" reason?

The spell is working as intended. It is a cantrip with no saving throw, it should come with a drawback or two.

[cl656]

Originally posted by Harukage:

It is working as intended. I am prety sure the description tells you that target is aware of your manipulation, so that target will not be happy about your actions later naturally. It is a exactly low level spell that is made to manipulate people you will never meet later.

As it stands now, it's borderline useless. You run the chance of starting combat with someone, and when you are in a social situation, you're not in a good position to aggro the whole area more times than not.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Use it on creatures (goblins) that you don't care how they feel about you afterwards, or if you're never going to be coming back to that location (like bypassing a guard).

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Indure:

Would you be okay with one of the companions removing your ability to make decisions and bending to their desires even if it was for a "good" reason?

The spell is working as intended. It is a cantrip with no saving throw, it should come with a drawback or two.

That's not how (low level) charm spells work. The spell isn't called 'Slaves,' it's called 'Friends.'

The spell only gives you advantage on persuasion checks. It does not force the subject to obey your commands. They still have free will, they're just more inclined to think of you in a favorable light.

Also, there's the fact that WIZARDS are not Charisma based casters. Meaning that their ability to perform well in social situations is very limited, without the use of magical assistance.

[Indure]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Also, there's the fact that WIZARDS are not Charisma based casters. Meaning that their ability to perform well in social situations is very limited, without the use of magical assistance.

Bards, sorcerers and warlocks have access to friends as well.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Indure:

Bards, sorcerers and warlocks have access to friends as well.

And that would be great, if any of those were the class I felt like playing at the time. But I wanted to play a Wizard.

The entire concept behind the school of Enchantment, is that it's the school which allows you to manipulate those around you, and effectively become the puppet master who pulls the strings behind society.

I find it difficult to believe that Enchanters would be as successful as they are implied to be, if their victims instantly become aware they were under magical influence when the spells wears off.

I would be willing to accept the aggro, if we were talking about something more severe, like Dominate person, or Geas. But just using a simple Friends / Charm doesn't seem like such a grievous offense. Especially when, as I said, I was using it to diffuse a situation and stop Zevlor and the mercenary leader from coming to blows with each other.

[RealDealBreaker]

Friends is the 'travelling salesman' spell. You use it only when you don't care about the target in the slightest or when you know you will not be back in that area/the npc isn't likely to be seen again. In a video game setting (with limited places to go and only a small number of npcs even in major settlements) it isn't going to be nearly as good as it can be in tabletop games.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

I to have problems with "friends" but i trapped a few into it and now they cant leave do to the attachme... you meant the in game spell.... well this is awkward....

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Indure:

Bards, sorcerers and warlocks have access to friends as well.

And that would be great, if any of those were the class I felt like playing at the time. But I wanted to play a Wizard.

The entire concept behind the school of Enchantment, is that it's the school which allows you to manipulate those around you, and effectively become the puppet master who pulls the strings behind society.

I find it difficult to believe that Enchanters would be as successful as they are implied to be, if their victims instantly become aware they were under magical influence when the spells wears off.

I would be willing to accept the aggro, if we were talking about something more severe, like Dominate person, or Geas. But just using a simple Friends / Charm doesn't seem like such a grievous offense. Especially when, as I said, I was using it to diffuse a situation and stop Zevlor and the mercenary leader from coming to blows with each other.

Friends is a cantrip. Higher level enchantments spells are more powerful.

[Gaius]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I was hoping to use this spell on a crowd control / non-violent route spell caster in future playthroughs and builds. Only to discover that when the spell wears off, the victim nearly always turns hostile. I used it during the meeting with Zevlor to convince him and the mercenary to settle their dispute peacefully, instead of knocking one of them out. But when I deactivated the spell and went to talk to Zevlor and receive his quest from him, he immediately went on the offensive as soon as I walked into his office.

I was forced to kill him in self defense!

If this is going to be a problem every time, I'd like to know about it. Because as it stands right now, Friends seems to be reserved exclusively for dialogue with people you'll never meet again. Which is borderline impossible to predict on a blind play through!

I use it with everyone, just go away before concentration breaks. You'll lose like 5% friendship, but you give the vendor a broken plate and it's even. They don't remain hostile, just turn the moment the spell breaks.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Harukage:

It is working as intended.

No, it's not. They'll fix it before release.