Arcane trickster. Tips?

[Ababinili]

I'm going to build Astarion as full arcane trickster. Any advice for the build?

For attacks, as i don't have many, I've the idea of going with bonks (club of hill giant + titanstring bow + risky ring + sharpshooter)

For arcane trickser spells, mainly utilities (like shield, longstrider, misty stip and whather i find as i can replace to any wizard spell).

At later act2 and act3, magical ambush my be a thing: warped Headband of Intellect or Diadem of Arcane Synergy + Scrolls. A lot of them.


Any extra advice? Any better plan?


(BTW i don't have the plan of using the dead shot. I don't mind having less accuracy, it's compensated by more base damage and the risky ring + Astarion bite. This might change but i preffer not)

[GrandMajora]

Origineel geplaatst door Exarch_Alpha:

It´s one of the worst specialization of one of the weakest classes. IIRC you can also choose Hold Person, so use it.

Remember when Arcane Archer was a prestige class only Elves could take?

I remember...

[paulxiep]

I used my Arcane Trickster as an effective support (no consumable rules, but using scrolls will really elevate Arcane Trickster to another level) for Paladin main, casting Paralyze and Glyph to help Paladin crit, as well as utility spells as needed, since I multi-ed with 2 Wizard levels.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3294601861

[Zeel Ara]

Stack it with scrolls and arrows. Maintains the concept and feel, while bypassing the completely useless subclass itself.

[seeker1]

The Arcane Trickster should be a master of illusion magic, it's what you would expect them to be good at. But, they can't learn spells above 2nd level, and no surprise, the most decent illusion spells in the game - greater invisibility, and phantasmal killer, both unobtainable as they are 4th level. (BTW, the game's only 5th level illusion spell is Seeming.)

They should get the same Illusory Self ability Illusion school wizards get.

[Ababinili]

Okay guys, i appreciate the advice of "respec to other thing" but i'm determined to play arcane trickster 'till the end. Not for the "power" but for the "role-playing". Yes, i know, it's a bad subclass. I'll take it as a challenge.

I think i've some good ideas, like this

Origineel geplaatst door Moffle:

Stack it with scrolls and arrows. Maintains the concept and feel, while bypassing the completely useless subclass itself.

or using mage hand to throw potions

[Zeel Ara]

Origineel geplaatst door Ababinili:

or using mage hand to throw potions

Not only have I never thought of doing this; it is also an amazingly cool and thematically fitting concept. I might actually have to make an arcane trickster now :D

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

The only problem with Mage Hand is that it requires concentration (there is a mod that removes this requirement however).

It's rly nice for throwing water pots and void bulbs at your enemies.

[watcherzero]

You can do a fair arcane archer build, stealth is whack in this game as almost everything has darkvision or some insane vision so you can only really melee sneak attack when invisible or before combat starts. However you only need one person in melee for him to gain advantage and so do ranged sneak attacks (having an invisible imp run in and melee is a great way to achieve it), supplement that with some spellcasting and you have a viable arcane trickster.

[[TG] zac]

Rogue is not really worth having as the main class.
Its great to dip into but its outdone by bard by a lot.

Wizards of the coast tried to make it better by ripping some things from pathfinder 2e, and it does make it better (A mod adds those changes like cunning strike) but its only part of what makes them good there and even against other martials in 5e it doesn't really go far enough.

If you want a rogue feel without being gimped I would suggest either 6 or 7 swords bard + 5 or 6 thief rogue.

Or

5 Bountyhunter hordebreaker ranger + 5 thief rogue + 2 fighter.

Either way being sure to grab duel hand crossbows and sharpshooter.

The damage output is vastly higher, you get even more skills & more expertise as well as a lot of good healing, utility, control and even a few good damage spells.

[[TG] zac]

Origineel geplaatst door GrandMajora:

Origineel geplaatst door Exarch_Alpha:

It´s one of the worst specialization of one of the weakest classes. IIRC you can also choose Hold Person, so use it.

Remember when Arcane Archer was a prestige class only Elves could take?

I remember...

Then it got moved to where anyone could grab it in 3.5 but still had some hard to get restrictions. (Had to have the right weapon profs, a +5 BAB, ability to cast spells and a bunch of other stuff if I remember right)

God it was worth it though to be able to snipe & AOE the way it did back then.
Nothing was more fun then hitting someone with an arrow that then exploded into a fireball.

[marco.tizzi]

Man, I noticed the last posts are relatively recent, so I'll give it a try. Maybe this thread is not dead. I was investigating with chatgpt how to make an arcane trickster and we came out with a couple of sinergies:
- diademe of arcane sinergy
- strange conduit ring
You should concentrate on magic hand to get the ring working and then sneak applying a condition, most probably a poisoned weapon. Works better with dual wielding.
I didn't try, it's pure theory

[jonnin]

IMHO the AT, like most rogues, is best if you just multiclass. Here, running a 50-50 split with wizard gets you higher level spells and a good mix of both classes, you can split the hairs depending on what spell level you want vs what rogue abilities.
Going pure, you just don't get enough good spells to matter and you can't do a pathfinder spell sneak attack. The most useful part of AT is just the slightly enhanced forever mage-hand, which can throw explosives etc if you drop them before combat -- that is actually a useful toy for most of the game, a little lacking late game. Find familiar can be used to generate a pet that can give you sneak attacks, like the raven, but here again it scales poorly at act 3. Shield spell is a nice way to avoid some damage all game long but you have at least 2 items that can do this without blowing spell slots. The act1 bow that restores a spell slot can be nice for this class too.

This class is a lot better in TT with role playing. You have access to a lot of utility spells out of combat, like invisibility, detect thoughts, knock, friends, lights and darks, etc. All that stuff that could make you a great infiltrator (disguise self and more), scout, or just light fingered klepto are available. You can distract someone while your magic hand swipes some gold or a potion or magic dagger... its a great RP TT class. Its just not a combat machine.

Honestly if you are gonna be stubborn and play pure AT ... item-mancer seems the way to go, whether its bombs or scrolls or magic arrows, just consume stuff to get the job done. Consider maybe spell sniper for eldrich blast, or wizard or other caster feat for spellbook enhancement?

[Mosey]

Even though it's a weak class it's perfectly serviceable to finish the game, sneak attack still does most of it's lifting. I'd recommend ranged attacks for sure. Sharpshooter wouldn't hurt.

People above aren't wrong about helmet of acuity, it's almost a required item if you expect your 'offensive' spells to do anything. I wouldn't go that route though.

Personally I suggest spell buffs in general and then you don't need to worry about your spell DC being high or not. You don't get many spell slots even at higher level, so using them for any kind of 'offense' is generally not advised.

If I recall correctly, I think when you replace spells you can replace from the wider list of spells but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I've played a Trickster. I know it still works that way for Eldritch Knight, so I assume it still works for Arcane Trickster. If it does still work, I'd do that since the general spell list is much better than the ultra limited AT list you start off with.

[Ababinili]

Origineel geplaatst door Mosey:

If I recall correctly, I think when you replace spells you can replace from the wider list of spells but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I've played a Trickster. I know it still works that way for Eldritch Knight, so I assume it still works for Arcane Trickster. If it does still work, I'd do that since the general spell list is much better than the ultra limited AT list you start off with.

I confirm this, you've a wider list of spells when you replace.
BTW, bad news: I get bored of trying to make this work and i swapped to ranger.

[mike_hanna211]

Thematically, with Astarion as a vampire spawn, I always thought Assassin was a better Rogue subclass for him. I have gone with Arcane Trickster before as well. But, Assassin just feels better as an evil vampire spawn, bent on killing his former master.