The Emperor vs Omeluum

[Metallicus]

So we are to believe that mindflayers are soulless husks that have no emotions, however, Omeluum does seem to generally be helpful and seems to be willing to go the extra mile to work the issue the PCs have. I get that some of his motivation is simply the puzzle of the PCs tadpole, but he seems to be friends with the Hobgoblin and genuinely help out.

Why do we distrust The Emperor, but trust Omeluum? Why are we willing to rescue Omeluum from his captivity? I am seeing a disconnect between these two situations.

[Tresh]

The emperor has ulterior motives and a reason to manipulate you. You are also constantly presented with evidence of the emperor's manipulation, starting with the whole dream visitor charade.
Omeluum doesn't conceal its true nature, offers you the one item it needs to protect itself from the Elder Brain's influence as compensation for strengthening your tadpole and in the Iron Throne, it doesn't even ask for your assistance, directing you to free Duke Ravengard instead.

The emperor is acting selfishly every step of the way, while Omeluum appears to be far more genuine and altruistic in its motivations.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Tresh:

The emperor has ulterior motives and a reason to manipulate you. You are also constantly presented with evidence of the emperor's manipulation, starting with the whole dream visitor charade.
Omeluum doesn't conceal its true nature, offers you the one item it needs to protect itself from the Elder Brain's influence as compensation for strengthening your tadpole and in the Iron Throne, it doesn't even ask for your assistance, directing you to free Duke Ravengard instead.

The emperor is acting selfishly every step of the way, while Omeluum appears to be far more genuine and altruistic in its motivations.

Also, he'll just flat out CONFESS, if you refuse to buy into his facade about being a tragic or misunderstood guy. The Emperor is a conniving sociopath who will do virtually anything to achieve his goals, and thinks little about sacrificing his so called 'allies' once he deems them to be an inconvenience.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Tresh:

The emperor has ulterior motives and a reason to manipulate you. You are also constantly presented with evidence of the emperor's manipulation, starting with the whole dream visitor charade.
Omeluum doesn't conceal its true nature, offers you the one item it needs to protect itself from the Elder Brain's influence as compensation for strengthening your tadpole and in the Iron Throne, it doesn't even ask for your assistance, directing you to free Duke Ravengard instead.

The emperor is acting selfishly every step of the way, while Omeluum appears to be far more genuine and altruistic in its motivations.

Also, he'll just flat out CONFESS, if you refuse to buy into his facade about being a tragic or misunderstood guy. The Emperor is a conniving sociopath who will do virtually anything to achieve his goals, and thinks little about sacrificing his so called 'allies' once he deems them to be an inconvenience.

Yup, that too. If someone shows you who they are, believe them.
I apply that rule when interacting with the emperor and I find it hillarious that it doesn't do the same when interacting with me. 😅
I stabbed the dream visitor, rejected the astral touched tadpole, told Lae'zel I would free Orpheus, told Voss I'd free Orpheus, rejected the emperor's advances, broke into the house of hope to steal the hammer, stole the hammer, met up with Voss under the city, told Voss I'd use the hammer, and yet the emperor has the audacity to be surprised when I used the hammer.

[Sir. Foxford]

That cut scene where Emperor is wearing a tunic in your dreams gave it away to me.
In the wise words of Will Stanton (Danny McBride) "Never trust a dude in a tunic."
He shouldn't be trusted. Omeluum never tried to hide, nor was he wearing a tunic.

[Яeplicant]

One has ulterior motives and was sketchy from the get-go, the other one seemingly does not and has people that are trusting him, otherwise he wouldn't be part of the Society of Brilliance.

However, it is debateble if Omeluum has plans of his own regarding SoB and beyond that but the way he was presented and such doesn't suggest malicious intent. Or he's just skilled in hiding it plain sight.

[TaKo]

1st, illithid are neither soulless nor emotionless, they are part of a hive-type society that doesnt value independancy a whole lot but they are very much capable of emotions, if anything their developed minds are capable of very intense emotions but they can simply not display them

anyways

omeluum is clearly very genuine, they truly do want to exist outside of the illithid empire(after all it hates them due to their independent nature and arcane magic), they are an odd being however, after all it did form an agreement with a lich where omeluum brought the lich people to feed on their souls while they fed on the brains before joining the society of brilliance

but i'd say their selflessness during the iron throne sequence clears any doubt

they are open about themself and is seemingly trying to come up with an alternative for illithid sustenance

on the other hand

the emperor manipulates you for his own interests the entire game, their ceremorphosis did a great number on their original personality even if he kept his memories, as already stated if you continually refuse to fall for the manipulation attempts he will flat out admit to it

[Tresh]

Originally posted by Яeplicant:

One has ulterior motives and was sketchy from the get-go, the other one seemingly does and has people that people trusting him, otherwise he wouldn't be part of the Society of Brilliance.

However, it is debateble if Omeluum has plans of his own regarding SoB and beyond that but the way he was presented and such doesn't suggest malicious intent. Or he's just skilled in hiding it plain sight.

Omeluum could certainly be part of the Netherbrain's larger plan, but if it is, I don't think it's aware of that, since it loses its autonomy if you took the ring from it and then free it from the iron throne.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Tresh:

Omeluum could certainly be part of the Netherbrain's larger plan, but if it is, I don't think it's aware of that, since it loses its autonomy if you took the ring from it and then free it from the iron throne.

very unlikely, the illithid despise those of their kind who develop full individuality

and no omeluum does not get enthralled by the netherbrain, they are at greater risk yes but assuming you dont do the bad ending and they survive, they should remain free

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Daddy Pooteenee:

That cut scene where Emperor is wearing a tunic in your dreams gave it away to me.
In the wise words of Will Stanton (Danny McBride) "Never trust a dude in a tunic."
He shouldn't be trusted. Omeluum never tried to hide, nor was he wearing a tunic.

Hell, even MINSC of all people was able to see through his BS, when the Emperor appeared to him as Dynaheir.

According to Minsc, she told him exactly what Minsc wanted to hear, which is something that she would never do.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by TaKo:

1st, illithid are neither soulless nor emotionless, they are part of a hive-type society that doesnt value independancy a whole lot but they are very much capable of emotions, if anything their developed minds are capable of very intense emotions but they can simply not display them

The original God of Death and judge of mortal souls mentions not once, but twice that Mind Flayers are soulless creatures.

Mind Flayers are denizens of the Far Realm. The gods had no part in their creation, and are actually scared of going anywhere near their plane of origin.

While Mind Flayers do possess their own pantheon of gods, they do not worship them in the conventional sense. Rather, they view their gods as rivals to be usurped once they manage to acquire enough power to do so.

[seeker1]

Spoilers?

The Emperor is what you get when a mindflayer discovers a means to autonomy from a netherbrain but is in no other way different from his kind.

Omeluum is some kind of mutant. Magic has changed him in some way to not only make him autonomous from the netherbrain but different from his kind.

Two things suggest to me very different. He is searching for a brain free diet for his kind (Emperor says he only ate the brains of criminals but I honestly don't believe him), and he actually tells you the Duke's life is more important than his in the Iron Throne. Self sacrifice. This makes him very different from his kind, AND Emperor, specifically.

Also, TBH, I never caught him deceiving me, unlike Emp.

[EricHVela]

Omeluum had no advantage to deceiving the party. Breaking free of the "addiction" could offer a lot of advantages, though. Deception could severely impede that progress if discovered.

For now, Omeluum can be trusted. Once Omeluum achieves what it desires to free itself, there's no telling.

[Harukage]

Omeluum is a known breed of arcane gifted illithids. They are nothing new to the setting. Most of them just turn themself into liches instead of actively seeking replacement for food. But still.
The story of the Emperor, who broke away from his colony is weird. And we know for sure it was Netherbrains plan to free itself all along.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Spoilers?

The Emperor is what you get when a mindflayer discovers a means to autonomy from a netherbrain but is in no other way different from his kind.

Omeluum is some kind of mutant. Magic has changed him in some way to not only make him autonomous from the netherbrain but different from his kind.

Two things suggest to me very different. He is searching for a brain free diet for his kind (Emperor says he only ate the brains of criminals but I honestly don't believe him), and he actually tells you the Duke's life is more important than his in the Iron Throne. Self sacrifice. This makes him very different from his kind, AND Emperor, specifically.

Also, TBH, I never caught him deceiving me, unlike Emp.

Well all of this begs the question of whether Omeluum does, in fact, posses a soul. Perhaps he was granted one for deeds or catching a Prime Material god's attention... being that we don't know much of his background or perhaps he was allowed or managed to maintain one despite transformation...

Nevertheless, I don't believe Omeluum has it in him to be deceptive based on the act of self sacrifice. We as observers know that he would literally die to save others. I disagree that he is just another gifted illithid. I think he is unique and would be interested to know more.

I'd have to think though that a creature such as him would be seen as an abomination by many and that his death would be highly sought after.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Omeluum is a known breed of arcane gifted illithids. They are nothing new to the setting. Most of them just turn themself into liches instead of actively seeking replacement for food. But still.
The story of the Emperor, who broke away from his colony is weird. And we know for sure it was Netherbrains plan to free itself all along.

Yeah, mind flayers typically shun the use of Arcane magic, in favor of relying on their Psionic abilities.

It's not that they can't use it, but that they choose not to do so.