Is Stealth Even Viable Now?

[GrandMajora]

Because from my personal observation, I've noticed that the devs gave NPC's the ability to 'Search' for hidden enemies. A feature which the Player Characters do NOT possess.

But even worse than that, it seems like the AI knows exactly where the characters are hiding, because they have, every time and without fail, made a Bee-line straight for my concealed party members, before popping their Search ability to reveal their location.

At this point, it seems like trying to run a stealth build is a fool's errand. Best case scenario is that you get the opportunity to launch the first strike in combat, only to be rendered completely ineffectual after that point.

[sir squirrel]

have you moved away from where your character went invisible? all the enemys make a bee line for where your character was last seen as shown by a double in the same place you went invisible if you moved far enough a way they wont catch you in there detection skill and it also depends on luck of the die since you can save against being caught by the skill

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by sir squirrel:

have you moved away from where your character went invisible? all the enemys make a bee line for where your character was last seen as shown by a double in the same place you went invisible if you moved far enough a way they wont catch you in there detection skill and it also depends on luck of the die since you can save against being caught by the skill

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to keep that in mind.

[go fast, eat ass]

You have to move the character after you hide them, yes. The AI will search for a hidden character and they will start in the last seen position as marked by a standing "ghost" of your character. Dont forget to use walls, columns or other obstacles that can break line of sight. Use dark spots that will give you an advantage on the stealth check rolls, use items that give you bonuses. If you utilize all of it and build your stealth characters properly, it can be a very powerful build.

[Bufnitza]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by sir squirrel:

have you moved away from where your character went invisible? all the enemys make a bee line for where your character was last seen as shown by a double in the same place you went invisible if you moved far enough a way they wont catch you in there detection skill and it also depends on luck of the die since you can save against being caught by the skill

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to keep that in mind.

If you thought you saw something somewhere and now it's gone, wouldn't you make a beeline for that particular spot to investigate? It's common sense, at the end of the day.

It's also somewhat the reason why once you hide, a "ghost" remains in the place you hid after you move. That's the latest known position the enemies will come to look for you. The search ability of enemies has a limited effect radius.

You gotta move after hiding. Also, don't hide when you're out of movement, do it at the beginning of movement.

[Razorblade]

Assuming you don't just move out of range of the NPC's ability, which is guaranteed to work, you roll a Stealth check versus the enemy's Passive Perception. Have high/buffed Stealth, and you're fine.

Stealth Expertise and +3 Dex is enough in 99% of cases, in my experience. Of course, the only real use case where you really need to stay within range is when using the Warlock's Eldritch Invocation invisibility, which doesn't let you move normally without breaking it.

[Draknalor]

Watch it.

He does the entire game without being seen by any one.

https://youtu.be/QCidaWmmZhQ?si=gn0N4SYsIbDZylX3

[ULTRA]

Yeah, stealth is absurdly exploitable, it's just the mechanics are odd and occasionally poorly designed, e.g. the red overlay for partial obscurity not being distinct enough from the red overlay for full visibility. The way the game handles the turn-based "bubbles" for combat can be counter-intuitive also for hours until you figure out what's happening. As for seeing invisible enemies, just let Volo enact his harebrained schemes, use items or spec into a class with see invisibility.

[Bufnitza]

Originally posted by ULTRA:

As for seeing invisible enemies, just let Volo enact his harebrained schemes

It grinds my gears so hard how there's no downside to that...

Out-of-universe, it makes absolutely no sense to not go through with what in-universe is nothing short of a traumatic butchering experience. I mean, for crying out loud, is that a 7 inch ice pick?!?!

There should be some downside to that so that there's at least some semblance of doubt over whether you want to go through with it or not, similar to the hag's offer.

[Dork_Stalker_310]

Originally posted by Bufnitza:

There should be some downside to that so that there's at least some semblance of doubt over whether you want to go through with it or not, similar to the hag's offer.

Aesthetics. And also that one mission in Act 3 with poltergeists, where you will enter the combat outside the damn building.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by Draknalor:

Watch it.

He does the entire game without being seen by any one.

https://youtu.be/QCidaWmmZhQ?si=gn0N4SYsIbDZylX3

Correction, he was seen a whole 6 people
By Withers (due to needing Hirelings to do some exploits to avoid being seen mid-cutsceen)
By the Emperor (unavoidable due to forced cutscenes)
By the 3 Gith that attack you at one point which are unavoidable
And by the Final Boss

But still, 99% of the game you can be in stealth to kill enemies outside of combat and only are forced to enter combat a whole 3 times (the 3 Gith, defending the Emperor and the Final Boss)

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by Bufnitza:

Originally posted by ULTRA:

As for seeing invisible enemies, just let Volo enact his harebrained schemes

It grinds my gears so hard how there's no downside to that...

Out-of-universe, it makes absolutely no sense to not go through with what in-universe is nothing short of a traumatic butchering experience. I mean, for crying out loud, is that a 7 inch ice pick?!?!

There should be some downside to that so that there's at least some semblance of doubt over whether you want to go through with it or not, similar to the hag's offer.

I mean, in both cases, you are promised that they can remove your tadpole
Both of them destroy your eye in some capacity, while Volo is the only one who offers a replacement (and a better one at that)
You do get a temporary debuff after you got your eye erm, picked

Though once you know of both of them, there is literally no reason why you should EVER accept the hag's offer. You get +1 intimidation, for disadvantage on perception checks and disadvantage when attacking Hags. which makes that specific character worse fighting the Hag, who, offers a lot of great items when fought, like a +1 in ANY stat and later an amulet that gives advantage in all mental saving throws. And a pretty amazing Rapier too
And +1 intimidation you can easily get via guidance, and there is a free-to-use amulet in act 1 that gives you a free version of it so no Cleric or so required. Or get it as advantage via MANY other ways (like as a cleric or as Zariel Tiefling with Thaumaturgy)

And well, Volo's eye has some downsides
You cant get it on Wyll, you cant get it if you already have the Hag Eye (that specific character) and if you got the Volo eye, you cannot get the Hag Eye on that character

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Bufnitza:

You gotta move after hiding. Also, don't hide when you're out of movement, do it at the beginning of movement.

I've found that's usually difficult to do once combat is initiated, because I'm in the enemy's cone of vision. So when I try to duck down, they're immediately spotted and forced out of stealth.

It's slightly more merciful with Assassin, as they can go into stealth as bonus actions. I think the Way of Shadow and Gloomstalker can do the same, but I'm not completely sure.