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[Dreamful]

You only think it's worse, it's not. Wizard won't beat Sorc as a blaster (though art of war is insane), but they are significantly better as a controller especially if you pick the right subclass.

[FunkyMonkey]

I think people underestimate how good Wizards access to their spell book is. Yes, in this game respeccing is incredibly easy and cheap, but unless you want to be doing that every other fight or know the fights so well that you know exactly what spells to pick, Wizards access to all spells they have in their spell book is incredibly useful. Need Invisibility? You got it? Remove curse? No problem. Fly? Give me a sec. Longstrider? Jump? Featherfall? Easy.

Sorcerers have more potent spells because of metamagic and Heighten spell can make them even better at CC at times, but if a Sorcerer didn't pick the right spell, they need to have a scroll for it or go to camp and respec. All Wizards need to do is just swap spells around. And it doesn't hurt that Wizards have more spells prepared than Sorcerers have spells known. This means you have more options at any given moment.

Edit. If you wanted to buff the Wizard in some way, I wouldn't go the "power creep" way of buffing their DC or anything like that. I might do something like this: Give them access to all rituals they have in their spell book even when they don't prepare them and *maybe* give them extra spells known based on their proficiency bonus. This would make it so that Sorcerers and Wizards would still feel different classes and would emphasize Wizards as utility casters with great spell access and Sorcerers as more limited in their spell access but more powerful spells with metamagic.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

I think people underestimate how good Wizards access to their spell book is. Yes, in this game respeccing is incredibly easy and cheap, but unless you want to be doing that every other fight or know the fights so well that you know exactly what spells to pick, Wizards access to all spells they have in their spell book is incredibly useful. Need Invisibility? You got it? Remove curse? No problem. Fly? Give me a sec. Longstrider? Jump? Featherfall? Easy.

Sorcerers have more potent spells because of metamagic and Heighten spell can make them even better at CC at times, but if a Sorcerer didn't pick the right spell, they need to have a scroll for it or go to camp and respec. All Wizards need to do is just swap spells around. And it doesn't hurt that Wizards have more spells prepared than Sorcerers have spells known. This means you have more options at any given moment.

Edit. If you wanted to buff the Wizard in some way, I wouldn't go the "power creep" way of buffing their DC or anything like that. I might do something like this: Give them access to all rituals they have in their spell book even when they don't prepare them and *maybe* give them extra spells known based on their proficiency bonus. This would make it so that Sorcerers and Wizards would still feel different classes and would emphasize Wizards as utility casters with great spell access and Sorcerers as more limited in their spell access but more powerful spells with metamagic.

This is a good point for a first playthrough of the game. It does not add much to raw power however.

Personally, I think the "raw power" of a Wizard comes form their spell access. You can prepare more than a Sorcerer and change them any time you want. Yes, Metamagic is strong and even stronger in BG3, but a Wizard can have prepared the right spell for the right situation much easier than a Sorcerer. For a Wizard, there is no cost of having Invisibility, Fly or Dimension door prepared, you can change them out at any time you want. Also, it's much easier for a Wizard to just pick all the rituals in the game and just prepare them when you need them. If you want those utility spells or rituals as a Sorcerer, you very quickly run out of spells known.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Personally, I think the "raw power" of a Wizard comes form their spell access. You can prepare more than a Sorcerer and change them any time you want. Yes, Metamagic is strong and even stronger in BG3, but a Wizard can have prepared the right spell for the right situation much easier than a Sorcerer. For a Wizard, there is no cost of having Invisibility, Fly or Dimension door prepared, you can change them out at any time you want. Also, it's much easier for a Wizard to just pick all the rituals in the game and just prepare them when you need them. If you want those utility spells or rituals as a Sorcerer, you very quickly run out of spells known.

Invisibility, fly are available as potions and misty step or dimension door as a scroll. The access to all rituals adds a bit to raw power but not a lot because only longstrider and enhance leap are impactfull.

Sure, potions are an option, but if you have those prepared you can upcast them and make multiple characters invisible or fly.

Also, I would argue rituals like Disguise self , Feather fall, Detect thoughts or Speak with dead are useful through the game. Sure, you can have items and potions for these, but that means you aren't using other potions or items. Opportunity cost is a consideration.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Why? Sorcerer has heighten spell and wizard has nothing like that. Moreover the good spells that are exclusive to wizards are mostly summon spells and turn to stone.

Wizards have the potential to learn every (arcane) spell in the game, where as Sorcerers only have access to a limited amount, and can only swap ONE of them out per level up.

Also, depending on your school specialty, Wizards get some additional buffs that make them way more useful than just being a more potent blaster.

Evocation specialists don't need to fear their allies getting caught in the radius of their AoE spells, meaning you're free to cast FIREBALL with reckless abandon.

The Transmutation school has a chance to create an additional Alchemy product by passing a DC15 Medicine check, and can't eventually create a Philosopher Stone to improve the holder's ability scores.

Necromancers get temporary HP from killing enemies, similar to a Fiend Pact Warlock. They can also raise multiple corpses once you get access to 3rd level spells.

Abjurists get a potent shield they can activate when casting a spell from their respective school.

Diviners get two pre-rolled dice after each long rest that they can whip out to replace the roll of friend and foe alike.

Those are just the immediately useful ones that come to mind. Haven't played around with the other schools enough to know how they pay off in the long run.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Why? Sorcerer has heighten spell and wizard has nothing like that. Moreover the good spells that are exclusive to wizards are mostly summon spells and turn to stone.

Wizards have the potential to learn every (arcane) spell in the game, where as Sorcerers only have access to a limited amount, and can only swap ONE of them out per level up.

Also, depending on your school specialty, Wizards get some additional buffs that make them way more useful than just being a more potent blaster.

Evocation specialists don't need to fear their allies getting caught in the radius of their AoE spells, meaning you're free to cast FIREBALL with reckless abandon.

The Transmutation school has a chance to create an additional Alchemy product by passing a DC15 Medicine check.

Necromancers get temporary HP from killing enemies, similar to a Fiend Pact Warlock.

Abjurists get a potent shield they can activate when casting a spell from their respective school.

Diviners get two pre-rolled dice after each long rest that they can whip out to replace the roll of friend and foe alike.

Those are just the immediately useful ones that come to mind. Haven't played around with the other schools enough to know how they pay off in the long run.

Enchanters at lvl 10 get Split enchantment, which let's them target 2 people with Enchantment spells that normally target only one. It's free twinned spell on Enchantment spells, basically. Really strong.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Enchanters at lvl 10 get Split enchantment, which let's them target 2 people with Enchantment spells that normally target only one. It's free twinned spell on Enchantment spells, basically. Really strong.

Twin-Crown of Madness

Twin-Confusion

Twin-Hold Person

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Enchanters at lvl 10 get Split enchantment, which let's them target 2 people with Enchantment spells that normally target only one. It's free twinned spell on Enchantment spells, basically. Really strong.

Twin-Crown of Madness

Twin-Confusion

Twin-Hold Person

Well, twin Hold monster is what I was thinking. Hold person you can upcast to target way more than 2 already and Confusion is AoE, so it wouldn't work. But twinning Hold monster, Otto's irresistible dance or Dominate person? Gimme.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Well, twin Hold monster is what I was thinking. Hold person you can upcast to target way more than 2 already and Confusion is AoE, so it wouldn't work. But Hold monster? Gimme.

Oh, I didn't realize confusion was AoE!

Still, though, Evocation is pretty powerful too. Since your allies become immune to your AoE attacks. You can upcast your FIREBALL directly into melee without having to worry about friendly fire.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Well, twin Hold monster is what I was thinking. Hold person you can upcast to target way more than 2 already and Confusion is AoE, so it wouldn't work. But Hold monster? Gimme.

Oh, I didn't realize confusion was AoE!

Still, though, Evocation is pretty powerful too. Since your allies become immune to your AoE attacks. You can upcast your FIREBALL directly into melee without having to worry about friendly fire.

I like Evocation for the lvl 10 feature that gives you INT to damage on Evocation spells and cantrips because combining that with Spell sniper and Eldritch blast your Evoker is now a diet Warlock :D

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

As far as i know crown of madness and confusion are bugged. Affected entities often use their movement before attacking the closest character. Endgame wizard is decent. I think wizards main problem is lvl 1-4.

I don't think there is much difference with any caster at lvls 1 - 4, honestly. What do you think makes Sorcerers for example much stronger than Wizards at those levels?

[FunkyMonkey]

That is powerful, sure, but you can't do that more than once or twice at that level, right? Like Shania once said, "That don't impress me much".

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Twin can be done as often as the character level and heighten once or twice (if one converts spell slots into sorcery points).

Right, that's true. I must have been thinking about Quickened spell. OK, that is good and better than a Wizard potentially, I'll grant that.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

I'll try to minmax wizard in lone wolf honour mode. Maybe this changes my mind about wizard.

Good luck. I'm not sure it will, Wizards thrive in a team, not as solo classes. But you go and play how you like :) I might recommend Abjurer for lone wolf.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

I'll try to minmax wizard in lone wolf honour mode. Maybe this changes my mind about wizard.

Good luck. I'm not sure it will, Wizards thrive in a team, not as solo classes. But you go and play how you like :) I might recommend Abjurer for lone wolf.

Wizards can easily solo - they're the "solution to every problem" class, although personally I would go with Druid-11/Wizard-1 because you get all the utility of the Wizard from Scribe Spell in addition to max caster lvl and all the perks from Druid. Only thing you lose is one feat.