Patch 7 - a chance to rewrite the dross?

[LexingtonSeal]

It’s interesting that their last ‘hurrah’ is a dedicated mod-kit that will let us change all aspects of the game.

I’m hoping that extends to the narrative too.

Imagine being able to change the abysmal dialogue.

Imagine being able to, for example, introduce a real villain in Act 1, from the very start.

Imagine presenting a motive to actually press on.

Imagine that every character is born of shades of grey, from the ‘good’ to the ‘bad’, as they are in life - as we all are, despite our trite and simple-minded assumptions that our philosophies are the ‘good philosophies’ and all else are ‘bad’.

Such is the blandess of the BG3 narrative.

But I’m game to twist it into something a little more ‘grey’.

A good character is as we are - full of sh*t.

There’s no such thing as good or evil. But a foolish writer certainly assumes as much, and in turn gives us the snooze-fest that is BG3.

Come on Larian.

Let us have at the ‘dialogue tree’ too.

Cheers!

[War Maiden]

Originally posted by LudwigVanEarwig:

It’s interesting that their last ‘hurrah’ is a dedicated mod-kit that will let us change all aspects of the game.

I’m hoping that extends to the narrative too.

They are giving modders the tools to make the game more appealing to everyone whom is able to know computechnics. Meaning. Everyone in the current age whom can navigate a computer without asking their child how to work the mouse.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by War Maiden:

They are giving modders the tools to make the game more appealing to everyone whom is able to know computechnics. Meaning. Everyone in the current age whom can navigate a computer without asking their child how to work the mouse.

Nyet, kijo-san! Read the small print...

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I'm curious: for the non-programmers here, how does changing the strings of text in a database (I'm assuming that's what you meant by DB, apologies if that's wrong) get you completely new animated, voice-acted dialog?

BG1 and BG2: minimal to no voice acting.

Books (all better than BG3, even thrash-lit): no voice-acting.

Why do you keep talking about voice acting as if it's needed to 'compute' words on a screen/page?

[Jarsonne]

Most BG1&2 books are awful scholar writing, very boring, just report some boring lore isn't good in game books.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by Jarsonne:

Most BG1&2 books are awful scholar writing, very boring, just report some boring lore isn't good in game books.

And what is BG3 then buddy?

They couldn't even introduce a main villain in all of Act 1 because they were too scared.

Then what did we get in the end? Never-really-on-the-scene Gortash and wackadoodle Orin?

What about random Sarevok?

Campy Raphael?

Mate, give me the reigns.

I'll show you how to write.

[Detective Costeau]

Originally posted by LudwigVanEarwig:

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I'm curious: for the non-programmers here, how does changing the strings of text in a database (I'm assuming that's what you meant by DB, apologies if that's wrong) get you completely new animated, voice-acted dialog?

BG1 and BG2: minimal to no voice acting.

Books (all better than BG3, even thrash-lit): no voice-acting.

Why do you keep talking about voice acting as if it's needed to 'compute' words on a screen/page?

Because I'm specifically talking about a rumor which someone posted suggesting that Larian, not modders, was going to do something that would involve major changes to several stories, which would require new dialog. Which I've said, very clearly, several times.
Presumably Larian is in fact going to keep having all the dialog that they themselves put in the game be voiced, even if you personally do not feel it is necessary.

Look, at this point you're either trolling or being willfully dense because you need your self-righteous anger fix, so I guess have fun claiming you've proven me wrong now I'm bored of this.
I'm going to go play Elden Ring instead.

[Jarsonne]

Originally posted by LudwigVanEarwig:

Originally posted by Jarsonne:

Most BG1&2 books are awful scholar writing, very boring, just report some boring lore isn't good in game books.

And what is BG3 then buddy?

Humor, story of people (not nations, guilds, religions, races, abstract kings or heroes, more schoilar crap), anecdotes, and often books summary with touch of humor, not the whole stuff.

Starfield also tried the summary thing, but pathetically failed it by lack of writing skills.

EDIT:
Best achievement I ever seen, The Witcher 1 encyclopedia, it's not provided as books, but many entries could be. Here the way to provide properly lore after insert it and merge it properly in some dialog.

[LexingtonSeal]

Raphael: 'Go ahead...enjoy your supper...it might just be your last' (I'm not a mustache-twirly villain from a child's cartoon show trying to hit you over the head that I'm the bad guy).

Raphael: 'And when hope is whittled down to the very marrow of despair' (I'm not written by a clueless hack who thinks florid overwritten dialogue makes me sound smarter than I am)

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by Jarsonne:

Humor, story of people

Doesn't know who it's villain is in all of Act 1. Does a DOS:2 'surprise Braccus Rex is still alive' on a certain character from the better written older games.

Ends with a generic brain-monster who just hisses random generic hate.

That's your idea of great writing?

If by humour, you mean the sex-obsessed 'teenage-kid aping of that concept', here it is for all to see folks: https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Kobold_Journal

Or maybe the bear sex?

Hahaha

Yeah.

Jesus gimme a break.

This game's writers are easily the biggest hacks in the industry. Their dirty-minded giddiness, their non-existent antagonists and boring af main plot that ends in the a predictable generic monster as the main event...

You have not a leg to stand on, and certainly you have no right whatsoever to diss better games, and paper-back novels, in particular.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I would remove most of the dialog and quests just to turn it into a dungeon crawl.

[Brian_the_Brute]

Bad news:

From Larian's official announcement today, there is nothing in there that states they are opening up the scripting of the game to allow editing of the story logic. Also, nothing about a module or world builder tool.

Alpha : now, Beta: July, Patch 7 Release: September

Official mod support will be run through a 3rd party: mod.io , which requires a new account

There will be a lot less freedom for the content in the officially supported the mods: NSFW and non-PC content will not be allowed. It has to be dumbed down to work on consoles and not violate mod.io and the console companies' policies.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I would be willing to bet that those rumors are the usual paranoid ramblings of internet wierdos who just need fuel for their outrage addiction.

Just think of what would actually be involved, here. They'd basically have to do the entire plot with the tiefling refugees over, will all of the programming, additional dialog to write and get voiced, new cutscenes to animate, and so on.

And the reason this might happen is WotC is going to come in and somehow force Larian to do this, because they want them to remove references to discrimination against Tieflings, in direct contradiction of WotC's own lore about the IP, which specifically says Tieflings face frequent discrimination.

To put it mildly, I don't think that's especially likely.

We've already seen evidence of it happening, though.

Flourick no longer comments about your boldness "doing you credit" when you rescue them as a Drow. For those who aren't aware "you're a credit to your people" was a backhanded compliment that carried racist undertones.

And just yesterday, when encountering the grave robbers outside the crypt at the beginning of the game, I noticed the cutscene has been altered so that the gnome isn't aggressively berating his larger accomplices. He still makes the "half the bloody backbone" comment, but he's more calm when he speaks.

[seeker1]

Yeah, as I keep pointing out, there's a key ambiguity in what they've said on scripting.

https://www.gameleap.com/articles/bg3-releases-modding-toolkit-with-patch-7-everything-we-know

Some NSFW mods and extensive scripting changes won't be official.
These mods can still be created and shared outside of the official system, though they may not receive full technical support.

[snip][end]

Yeah. Now, what IS an "extensive" scripting change exactly?
Secondly, that would seem to indicate they are opening up the scripting to changes, but "extensive" changes won't be "officially" supported. But ... still available, just outside the curated garden and official technical support. Use at your own risk (I can live with that, as long as I can use.)

Let's go back to the official announcement.

"It’ll also ensure a smoother experience, at the cost of more script-focused modding, which can still be done outside of our pipeline."

... OK ... again, "can be done, but just outside the pipeline, we're in the pipe, 5 x 5, LOL."

BTW, I suspect, after reading a bit of that first article, the other thing that may be limiting the kinds of mods that they can "officially" "bless" is the rather restrictive rules Sony and Microsoft have for "acceptable" mods for the Xbox and Playstation.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by LudwigVanEarwig:

And what is BG3 then buddy?

They couldn't even introduce a main villain in all of Act 1 because they were too scared.

Then what did we get in the end? Never-really-on-the-scene Gortash and wackadoodle Orin?

What about random Sarevok?

Campy Raphael?

Mate, give me the reigns.

I'll show you how to write.

Why the heck would they put an arch villain in Act 1 of the game?

Hey, you just crash landed the Nautiloid and won't even hit level 5 until near the very end of this section of the game... would you like to try your hand at slaying a Chosen of the Dead Three!?

How about the son of Mephistopheles himself?

I've read fanfictions which have better situational awareness than whatever kind of script you'd come up with.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Why the heck would they put an arch villain in Act 1 of the game?

Hahahaha...

Oh Jesus...

This is their 'defence'. Act 1 = potentially 30 hours+.

Why would they introduce the main reason for pushing on in a fantasy adventure, you say?

Why would you play 30 hours+ with absolutely nothing to go on but fluff about illithids and what-else-have-we that isn't connected by a 0.00001 inch string of plot coherence.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

would you like to try your hand at slaying a Chosen of the Dead Three!?

What the hell has a good villain got to do with the player's geek-bestowed ability to 'kill' a silly little fantasy blister?

That's your excuse for not introducing text that articulates a quality antagonist from the get-go?

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

How about the son of Mephistopheles himself?

Just read what they write, these people who think in terms of 'levels' rather than words.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I've read fanfictions which have better situational awareness than whatever kind of script you'd come up with.

I invest all my 'exp' in social awareness buddy.

As for whether you think I can do better than these hacks, yeah - sure time will only tell if they give us the reigns on writing a script.

There are plenty of empty-heads online, at least, that would make great muses as doddering, dodgy, doggedly dumb NPCs.