Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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GrandMajora Dec 21, 2023 @ 11:50am
Why Are The Dead 3 So Dysfunctional?
For being the former god of Death, Murder and Strife, Jergal seems pretty chill with life. Meanwhile, his successors are a bunch of raging psychopaths, merciless tyrants and generally complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

He must have been really, really bored with his position, if he thought those three would make good replacements.
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gungadin22000 Dec 21, 2023 @ 11:52am 
Who would have thought the followers of the gods of death, murder and tyranny would be egotistical ♥♥♥♥♥ unable to cooperate with each other?
kbiz Dec 21, 2023 @ 11:56am 
They didn't read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Chosens. They mentioned something about TLDR.
Cruddy Dec 21, 2023 @ 12:18pm 
Maybe losing those domains gave him new perspective? Or could go with the generic "all of those things together create some sort of Balance."
Cur Dec 21, 2023 @ 12:18pm 
The Gods themselves aren't allowed to do much in the world because Ao won't let them. So they have to use mortals as their chosen to try and execute their plans. The chosen for the god of darkness is a selfish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who wants to be a lone tyrant. The chosen for the god of violence wants to murder everything. The chosen for the god of death is obsessed with his dead daughter and doesn't care about anything else.

Jergal used to be "the god of death" but was more than that. He was the "god of the end of everything". So death was a part of his schtick but he was more about keeping a catalog of everything that died. Bhaal on the other hand is just "the god of violence" and happens to prefer murder and violence to the kind of slow decay that Jergal was cool with.

Jergal also didn't choose them as his replacement. He just stepped down from his place. Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul chose them as their instruments after they "replaced" Jergals position. Choosing a mortal isn't as easy as "you do what I say now!" because of the way that Ao enforces the rules on the gods. Basically the gods have to look for someone who aligns with their values or hope to trick someone into it. There aren't a lot of mortals who are perfectly aligned with the values of The God of Violence and Ritualistic Killing so you don't get the most reliable chosen and end up dealing with some severe personality issues.

It's a part of the reason why The Dark Urge is such an interesting character. Seems like prior to getting brain damage Durge was the most devious and dangerous of the potential chosen.
Last edited by Cur; Dec 21, 2023 @ 12:26pm
Razorblade Dec 21, 2023 @ 12:52pm 
That's pretty much the idea. Jergal was tired of doing it, and the Dead Three passed his trials and offered to take his place.

At the end of the day, Jergal didn't care what happened as long as he got his eternal nap. Like most gods, he was callous and self-interested; the only difference being that he was lazy/bored, compared to the ambition of the Dead Three and many other gods.
Last edited by Razorblade; Dec 21, 2023 @ 12:53pm
GrandMajora Dec 21, 2023 @ 4:57pm 
I think people are getting confused about the topic. When I say "The Dead Three", I'm not talking about their chosen. I'm talking about the gods themselves, who were referred to as 'The Dead Three', following the Time of Troubles, because all three of them were dead..



Originally posted by Cur:
The Gods themselves aren't allowed to do much in the world because Ao won't let them.

That's a fairly recent change to his rules that happened after the Second Sundering.

And once they heard about that new law, The Dead Three renounced their divinity so that they could continue to act upon the mortal world. They now exist as quasi-deities. Not truly divine, but also way more powerful than any mortal should be.

The Dark Urge being a Bhaalspawn is a Larian homebrew, because the canon story is that at this point, all of the Bhaalspawn are long dead, and Bhaal was resurrected from their collected essence.
Anima Mundi Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:01pm 
They were never meant to be gods. They were mortals who snatched power and the portfolios from Jergal.
They never deserved them
Anima Mundi Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:03pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The Dark Urge being a Bhaalspawn is a Larian homebrew, because the canon story is that at this point, all of the Bhaalspawn are long dead, and Bhaal was resurrected from their collected essence.

Welp it is canon now though. It got approved and accepted by the IP holder (idk if they actually had something to do with it too), and now its canon :p
kbiz Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:11pm 
Originally posted by Cur:
The Gods themselves aren't allowed to do much in the world because Ao won't let them. So they have to use mortals as their chosen to try and execute their plans. The chosen for the god of darkness is a selfish ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who wants to be a lone tyrant. The chosen for the god of violence wants to murder everything. The chosen for the god of death is obsessed with his dead daughter and doesn't care about anything else.

Jergal used to be "the god of death" but was more than that. He was the "god of the end of everything". So death was a part of his schtick but he was more about keeping a catalog of everything that died. Bhaal on the other hand is just "the god of violence" and happens to prefer murder and violence to the kind of slow decay that Jergal was cool with.

Jergal also didn't choose them as his replacement. He just stepped down from his place. Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul chose them as their instruments after they "replaced" Jergals position. Choosing a mortal isn't as easy as "you do what I say now!" because of the way that Ao enforces the rules on the gods. Basically the gods have to look for someone who aligns with their values or hope to trick someone into it. There aren't a lot of mortals who are perfectly aligned with the values of The God of Violence and Ritualistic Killing so you don't get the most reliable chosen and end up dealing with some severe personality issues.

It's a part of the reason why The Dark Urge is such an interesting character. Seems like prior to getting brain damage Durge was the most devious and dangerous of the potential chosen.

Nice lore summary. Even worked in schtick.

By definition, the Chosen will be dysfunctional. Just read their psych profiles.
Narky Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:24pm 
Largely in part of the fact the three mortal beings that were given their Portfolio's of Death, Murder and Tyranny were all batsh*t crazy before becoming gods.

User error, not the Portfolio themselves, it was largely an oversight by Jergal who just wanted to retire from being one of the most powerful entities in existence. 100% if sane individuals inherited the portfolio's from Jergal, who were not crazy-bent with desires for power and dominance (or in the case of Bhaal, psychopathy), you wouldn't have a situation that led to the Dead Three to begin with.
Last edited by Narky; Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:27pm
Squiffy Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:31pm 
You think they're bad?

Should've seen Jergal try to guide Cyric when he had all of their portfolios.
Dragon Master Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:39pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
For being the former god of Death, Murder and Strife, Jergal seems pretty chill with life. Meanwhile, his successors are a bunch of raging psychopaths, merciless tyrants and generally complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

He must have been really, really bored with his position, if he thought those three would make good replacements.

Because lore-wise they were power-hunger mortals who were psychopaths.

As mortals who sought to ascend they went to Jergal and tried to overthrow him and his domains. Jergal, however, had grown so disinterested and done with it that he genuinely didn't care if they took over his domains so he could have a vacation.

So when the three showed up and went "Give us your power or we will destroy you with all these artifacts and power we've gathered," Jergal went "Okay. So, who's getting my power?"

It caused them, once allies, to turn on each other and Jergal went "Okay, play a game of chance to determine who gets which domains." Bane became Lord of Tyranny, thinking it would give him power over all life. Myrkul became the God of Death and told Bane that he can take Bane's kingdom whenever he wanted. Bhaal became the God of Murder and said to the other two that he was more important because by taking that domain he could help or hinder the other two at his own discretion by determining who lives and dies through murder.

Jergal went on vacation after they took those domains and is just coming back in BG3 now that the Dead Three are basically semi-gods and set themselves up for failure.
Zsrai Dec 21, 2023 @ 6:08pm 
Originally posted by Dragon Master:
Jergal went on vacation after they took those domains and is just coming back in BG3 now that the Dead Three are basically semi-gods and set themselves up for failure.

Nah, he stuck around the entire time in Myrkul's domain. He was the "court seneschal" of the realm of the dead, which Cyric inherited (along with all three God's powers... along with some others). When Cyric started shedding his sanity and his sphere's, he stuck around with Kelemvor after he became the god of the dead.

He's basically an old man that is sick of the kids screwing everything up.
Razorblade Dec 21, 2023 @ 6:24pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
The Dark Urge being a Bhaalspawn is a Larian homebrew, because the canon story is that at this point, all of the Bhaalspawn are long dead, and Bhaal was resurrected from their collected essence.
There's no rule saying Bhaal could not make more Bhaalspawn after his resurrection, as far as I am aware. Durge is, to my knowledge, the last Bhaalspawn, but not necessarily the last one from the first litter.

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:
Welp it is canon now though. It got approved and accepted by the IP holder (idk if they actually had something to do with it too), and now its canon :p
That's not really how DnD works. "Canon" (although WotC hates to use that word) is derived from tabletop sources. That's why BG3's callbacks are largely limited to BG1 and BG2 information "verified" in Murder in Baldur's Gate and Descent Into Avernus, rather than Larian taking whatever they wanted from the original two games.

In essence, BG1 and BG2 are not canon to their own sequel. There is no reason to believe BG3 will receive superior treatment than its prequels when it comes to greater DnD lore.
Last edited by Razorblade; Dec 21, 2023 @ 6:25pm
Revenant Dec 21, 2023 @ 6:33pm 
Originally posted by Razorblade:
That's not really how DnD works. "Canon" (although WotC hates to use that word) is derived from tabletop sources.

Also, it is important to distinguish between Dungeons and Dragons (which is just a rules system) and Forgotten Realms, which is one of many campaign settings published for that system.

BG3 uses an unofficial version of the D&D rules to tell a story set in an unofficial version of the FR setting. Yes, Larian licensed it, but that doesn't mean much of anything lore-wise.
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Date Posted: Dec 21, 2023 @ 11:50am
Posts: 30