Spellcasting in BG3 During Combat is Mostly a Waste

[RustyWheel]

I'm not one of those gamers who sits there and crunches numbers to try and achieve maximum DPS or alpha damage, but the difference between the per use value of weapon and ranged action points versus spellcasting in BG3 is just too hard to ignore.

In my first play through by about level 9 with the exception of quests that benefited having a specific character along who happened to be a spellcaster I had mostly abandoned spellcasting because in most cases it just wasn't worth wasting action points on them.

By the end of that playthrough about the only spell I was using was Spiritual Guardian on Shadowheart who with her 24 AC, I could plop in the middle of a fight and have her do damage just by walking around, especially in fights with the undead wielding the blinding mace.

It was even worse in my second playthrough when I started adding multi-classing into the mix and could start cranking up my ranged and melee damage.

For my third play through I am not even bothering with spellcasters and did things like making Gayle an Eldrich Knight/Wizard mix and Shadowheart a monk/cleric mix to keep in the spirit of their canon roles, but mostly just use as melee.

There are two reasons why spellcasting in BG3 is gimped in the game, the action point cost and saving throws. For example, a third level spell slot fireball will do 8d6 against each target, worst case it will do 4 damage against a target if it makes its saving throw, best case 48.

Without using scrolls an 8th level mage can cast that spell 6 times before needing a long rest. Contrast that with an 8 level Bard with a DEX focus and gear available relatively early in the game to enhance both the attack and damage of ranged attacks. Ranged damage will be 11-19 per attack with a 95% chance to hit most targets even when in melee range.

Using Slashing Flourish (Ranged) that is 4 attacks per round at a minimum of 11 damage. With 5 bardic charges that can be refreshed with a short rest and the additional short rest that comes with being a bard that is 20 charges per long rest.

Add in the Bloodlust potion, multi-class with action surge, a haste potion, multi-target arrows, explosive and other AOE arrows, 10 tadpoles with the cull the weak option and there is just no comparison.

Similar damage and mitigation can be done with a Battle master fighter/monk rouge mix with powers that reset with a short rest.

One thing that would help spellcasting is that all buffs/de-buffs spells and cantrips should cost bonus action, not an action. As a Bard wasting a full action point using Vicious Mockery to do 2d4 damage and an attack de-buff that can be negated with a save is a waste of the action compared to the damage the Bard can do with that same action point.

Another thing that would help spellcasters is that if a target makes its saving throw against a single target with a no damage spell the caster should get the action point back or at the very least an additional bonus action.

Spells like Hunters Mark and Hex when the target dies should allow the spell to be transferred to another target without costing a bonus action. Past level 5 I almost never use these spells because most of the time multiple enemies are getting killed in a turn and can use the bonus to deal damage to another target.

Of course the other side of the coin is that weapon attacks in the game are mostly over powered, but even there the game is way out of balance given how so many rare, legendary weapons and feats favor great weapon and don't encourage the use of many of the 1d4, 1d6 and 1d8 weapons.

[parent child bowl]

Publicado originalmente por Rosh+:

in a game where you can kill endgame bosses with single magic missile casts, you tell me magic is underpowered.

no.

To be fair, MM has an interaction with Spellmight Gloves that it shouldn't have.

[solaris32]

The problem is there's too many concentration spells and you can only concentrate on 1 at a time. WotC should've nerfed them and let you concentrate on 2-3 at a time. Spellcasting would instantly be more fun whatever your build.

How it is now, unless you have meta knowledge of upcoming fights, you're going to use your favorite concentration spell in every fight and ignore all the others. Even with meta knowledge your favorite spell will do alright the majority of the time. The current system stifles creativity.

[Myrden]

Counterspell, cantrips and CC. Not to forget the buffs and lovely AoE damage.

It's all in how you play really. If you just want to murder hobo with all the best multi-classes then go for it, you likely wont need a caster, but you'll be missing out on all the fun things a caster brings.

[Darth Cannabis]

Publicado originalmente por Myrden:

Counterspell, cantrips and CC. Not to forget the buffs and lovely AoE damage.

It's all in how you play really. If you just want to murder hobo with all the best multi-classes then go for it, you likely wont need a caster, but you'll be missing out on all the fun things a caster brings.

And don't forget the summoning spells. Those are quite worthwhile. particularly your higher level ones. Lesser elementals are useful, a greater elemental is basically an extra party member with more health than any of your 4. They last until they die for the most part, heal up on short rests like rest of party, and can teleport.

[Kaisha]

The entire combat system is an utter unmitigated disaster. By far one of the absolute worst I've ever had to endure in a video game.

[Kafik]

Publicado originalmente por Kaisha:

The entire combat system is an utter unmitigated disaster. By far one of the absolute worst I've ever had to endure in a video game.

lol ok dramaqueen.

[victorvnv]

The OP is right, my college of the swords bard can do 700-800+ damage per turn, killed tactition Ansur in 1 turn before he could act, cleared the Elder brain fight with the dragon on tactition single handily in 2 turns ; turn 1 the dragon dies turn 2 the guardian and the illithida died. Killed Orin in 1 turn before she could take a turn

I don’t have a twitch account so I will try to make one and post videos. Anyone got tips how to record videos of playing ?

[Hex]

That's why 3.5 is simply better. Every class had an actual role in the party.

[kakita tatsumaru]

Publicado originalmente por Blurp:

Publicado originalmente por kakita tatsumaru:

Magic is OP for utility only.

storm cleric + sorc builds would like a word with you

You need to make some math first. You may "feel" it is powerful, as the game is easy, yet if you do the math everything pales in comparison of a warrior archer doing 9 attacks with versatiles arrows, a Padlock doing 9 smite per turn, or Monk multiclass 10+ attack with versatile attacks: psy-damage with forced vulnerability punch an sneack attacks, throwing weapons, etcs...

Actually there was (my current build actually) a Eldrich blast spam build which used to be able to compete with those, adding +28 damages to each blast, but it was nerfed again and again each patch and now cap at +14 damages per blast.

[Argonaut]

*Laughs in martial with 11 attacks per turn*

[Popsicles]

"I'm not one of those gamers who sits there and crunches numbers"

Then goes on to explain his optimization lol.

If you think spellcasters suck, then you need to 'git gud.'

[Popsicles]

Publicado originalmente por Hex:

That's why 3.5 is simply better. Every class had an actual role in the party.

Rose colored glasses 4Hex.

[kakita tatsumaru]

Publicado originalmente por Rosh+:

in a game where you can kill endgame bosses with single magic missile casts, you tell me magic is underpowered.

no.

Too bad the main item needed for that is aquired so late unless you are playing a thief (and that said item is bugged as it doesn't work as written, so it will probably get nerfed anyway considering they already nerfed magic item combo which made more sense per their own description).

[talemore]

cast run away cast run away

archers there you got the big exploit of UNLIMITED ARROWS

[765]

Wrong