Warlock pacts...they suck. Need a rework.

[WeenerTuck813]

So I'm playing my 2nd and 3rd playthrough. On my evil one im playing a Drow Sorc, dipping into warlock a bit.

The pacts suck.

1.) Pact of the Blade - Good...for Melee. This one works as intended, but I'm not playing melee...so useless.

2.) Pact of the Tome - Sucks. You dont get to choose cantrips (Tabletop allows a CHOICE of any 3 cantrips), you get Guidance, Voice of Mockery, and Thorn Whip. It also doesnt give you the most important buff - the ability to learn RITUAL spells from scrolls like you were a wizard. I really wanted to scribe speak with animals, longstrider, etc.

3.) Pact of the Chain - Its good...but completely useless. When you meet Shovel, the Quasit near the Necromancy of Thay book, you can obtain him as a permanent summon. If you can summon shovel it's literally a FREE Pact of the Chain, you cant summon both and the options are Imp or Quasit, so by having shovel you basically get pact of the chain for free.

So, basically, all of these are useless for my character. I took pact of the tome because i guess having those cantrips on my spellbar makes me feel like i have choices but ill literally never use them. maybe guidance if i dont have shadowheart around? They need to rework Pact of the Tome to allow scribing Rituals like a wizard for spellcasters who dont want/need the summon - Anyone else run into this?

[WeenerTuck813]

Origineel geplaatst door Fortune Calls:

Warlock is very powerful for a two level dip get get some free abilities. Fiendish Vigor is very good for a retaliation build. The strategy is to keep up your temporary HP topped up, and rely on Hellish Rebuke / Wrath of the Storm / Reposte to have your enemy damage themselves whether they hit or miss.

The best thing is that all these abilities recharge on a short rest.

I prefer 4 levels in warlock as my dip. I don’t like missing ASIs, I think Lucky Feat is way too good.

I like to go 4 levels Sorc, respec at 5 into 1 Sorc 4 Warlock, then just go Sorc rest of the way.

[WeenerTuck813]

Origineel geplaatst door FunkyMonkey:

Origineel geplaatst door WeenerTuck813:

I titled the thread…carelessly.
The initial buffs Pact of the Tome get are what I think need to be reworked. I suppose their idea was to make up for it by adding excellent spells later, but the dip Tome buffs are kinda bad

That is true, It was a bummer to see how the cantrips are set and ritual casting is so different in BG3 that it would be difficult to implement it the same way as in TT.

Honestly, good "fix" might be to give players the option to choose the 3 cantrips and then choose any 3 ritual spells to have. It wouldn't be the same as TT where you can gain more ritual s later, but could be good compromise.

Iyam
The fix is easy.
Let it add 1-3 ritual spells that are RP based.

Speak with Animals. Disguise self. Etc.

Add those and it becomes worthwhile.

[Fortune Calls]

Origineel geplaatst door dbond1:

Yes, but Hellish Rebuke is busted it seems. Stopped working for me about half way through the game.

Sometimes I exhaust my 2 Warlock spellcasting slots by casting Hex too much, not noticing a failed concentration check. That would prevent Hellish Rebuke from working.

[WeenerTuck813]

Origineel geplaatst door Fortune Calls:

Origineel geplaatst door dbond1:

Yes, but Hellish Rebuke is busted it seems. Stopped working for me about half way through the game.

Sometimes I exhaust my 2 Warlock spellcasting slots by casting Hex too much, not noticing a failed concentration check. That would prevent Hellish Rebuke from working.

Yah I just used it a moment ago - working fine for me.

You also may want to check your passives tab to make sure it’s set up to prompt you

[Edstyles]

Casters are weird anyway. Your best spell is a cantrip and well thats what u use alot. So all other spells feel pointless.
Same with wizard . Your best spell is a lv 1 spell. Whats the point in having all spells in the world when u use the same few spells over and over

[dbond1]

Hellish Rebuke is no longer in my reactions tab. It appears under warlock abilities but not in reactions and never fires. I'm not the only one having this problem as has been discussed here before.

I suspected it was somehow related to taking the Charm illithid but I don't really know.

[Moot]

leave my path of the blade alone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[WeenerTuck813]

Origineel geplaatst door Moot:

leave my path of the blade alone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Blade is fine, it’s for melee.

[Algebraic Abstraction]

Pact of the Tome may not be the same as tabletop, but it seems quite good for a caster-centric build. You get more of the things you want, and it scales at least as well as blade does. And, Call Lightning is MUCH stronger in BG3 than it is in tabletop, making it a pretty nice tool for the encounters where sustained aoe damage is relevant.

I'm not sure what to say about Chain though, I agree that's the existence of Basket makes it seem a bit underwhelming, but also not everyone has to go do that bit of content. We might argue that the Imp familiar scaling up to 2 attacks is not terrible, but it doesn't seem great either.

[Husker_85]

Origineel geplaatst door Algebraic Abstraction:

Pact of the Tome may not be the same as tabletop, but it seems quite good for a caster-centric build. You get more of the things you want, and it scales at least as well as blade does. And, Call Lightning is MUCH stronger in BG3 than it is in tabletop, making it a pretty nice tool for the encounters where sustained aoe damage is relevant.

I'm not sure what to say about Chain though, I agree that's the existence of Basket makes it seem a bit underwhelming, but also not everyone has to go do that bit of content. We might argue that the Imp familiar scaling up to 2 attacks is not terrible, but it doesn't seem great either.

Do I want my familiar to attack twice, or do I want them to order my foes to soil their pants? Choices...

[Goilveig]

Origineel geplaatst door WeenerTuck813:

Origineel geplaatst door Moot:

leave my path of the blade alone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Blade is fine, it’s for melee.

Or an excellent Jack-of-all-Trades build. My Pact of the Blade / College of Swords Bardlock is definitely great in melee, but EB is still a solid option, as is dropping an AoE CC, etc. It doesn't have to be either-or.

[GrandMajora]

Origineel geplaatst door WeenerTuck813:

3.) Pact of the Chain - Its good...but completely useless. When you meet Shovel, the Quasit near the Necromancy of Thay book, you can obtain him as a permanent summon. If you can summon shovel it's literally a FREE Pact of the Chain, you cant summon both and the options are Imp or Quasit, so by having shovel you basically get pact of the chain for free.

Not quite true. Each of the three pacts get upgraded after reaching a certain level, with Pact of the Chain getting a bonus attack for their familiar. The quasit you summon from your Pact of the Chain will be able to attack twice per round, where as Shovel only gets to attack once.

[WeenerTuck813]

Origineel geplaatst door GrandMajora:

Origineel geplaatst door WeenerTuck813:

3.) Pact of the Chain - Its good...but completely useless. When you meet Shovel, the Quasit near the Necromancy of Thay book, you can obtain him as a permanent summon. If you can summon shovel it's literally a FREE Pact of the Chain, you cant summon both and the options are Imp or Quasit, so by having shovel you basically get pact of the chain for free.

Not quite true. Each of the three pacts get upgraded after reaching a certain level, with Pact of the Chain getting a bonus attack for their familiar. The quasit you summon from your Pact of the Chain will be able to attack twice per round, where as Shovel only gets to attack once.

Yah I went on to clarify - my thread title was a little reactionary. I ran to the boards while I was in a “wtf” state.

My gripe is with the pact of the tome the early grab at level 3.

Yes, I understand later you get good spells, I mentioned earlier this must be how Larian decided to “make up for it.”

But the level 3 pact of the time Table top gives you the ability to scribe rituals and choose any 3 cantrips.

BG3 gives you 3 preset cantrips that are nye useless for a warlock, who typically (if you’re going PoTome as a caster) using Eldritch blast…not vicious mockery or thorn whip…and guidance is normally covered by other party members…so it’s pretty underwhelming.

I say this because I’m playing Sorcerer and dipping warlock 4 levels, so I’m griping on the early benefits…since I have shovel Chain is near useless, and Blade isn’t really usable either as a sorcerer. Kinda pigeonholed into Tome which just gives me extra buttons I’ll never use.

I wish they added a ritual or two for RP, like Disguise self or Speak with Animals.

[Flan]

If there isn't a mod to do this already it would be really easy to make.
The sorcerer patrons are pretty useless too.

[Husker_85]

Origineel geplaatst door GrandMajora:

The quasit you summon from your Pact of the Chain will be able to attack twice per round, where as Shovel only gets to attack once.

Ok, so the quasit from Pact of the Chain can attack twice, but Shovel can attack AND scream obscenities in the same round. Shovel wins, easily.