Why are wizards so underrated by community

[Prorok]

I see a lot of admiration for warlock and sorcerer...and so few people simply recommend wizard. I can't understand it.

As a wizard:

1. I have enormous freedom of spells. Depending on the fight, I can set completely different ones. But I still have more of them than, for example, a sorcerer. I don't have to respec every now and then.
   
2. It's easier for me to experiment with different spells and have more fun playing the game
   
3. Use some spells from the conjuration and necromancy schools... and then change the slots to other spells. Currently, as a necromancer, I can go into battle with 9+ different creatures (2x imp, 4x skeletons, mummy, elemental, shovel) and there is also Danse Macabre...

[Scheneighnay]

Publicado originalmente por Johndoe101:

Due to how the game is design unlike a proper made campaign by a DM. Warlock and sorceror have more viabiity for things they can do in a fight for battle field control. Unless BG3 later use all of the class subclasses , feats or etc in D&D 5E. Wizard are viable for the options that you can design your party for their skill set. A wizard properly made if you pick the correct spells they are always more useful then a warlock or a sorceror is. As wizards are one of those classes are fun to play for mid to high level play for how broken they can be for the spells you can get to use. Wizard are new player friendly as they are less forgiving if you do not know the limited amount of spells to pick as a warlock or sorceror.

As a creative gm in a D&D campaign would allow a pc to be creative with their spells , cantrips and gear on them. As in a D&D 5E game i used a 10ft pole , 10ft chain , a hook of sickle and a spell to make large fishing pole . As to lift items in water uncertain if it is safe or not to go in if it is 10ft or less. Stuff like this can't be done in game for all of the items in a player inventory .

You can still be plenty creative with wizards in this game. One of my favorite strats is to use arcane lock or wall or stone to separate a boss from its adds, or to trap them in a room with an area DoT

[james]

the way they worked meta magic and in particular made haste work is a big reason why sorcerers are so popular. twin casted haste on a couple of fighters is just down right dirty

[wendigo211]

IMO, the reason is concentration. It's no use being versatile when you can only do one interesting thing an encounter and then you have to fall back on damage which other classes do better. Without concentration, Wizards are awesome. With concentration, their big advantage of vesatility is rendered moot.

[Black Hammer]

Wizards are just less useful than Bards, Sorcs, and Warlocks.

Wizard's wider spell list barely matters as most utility spells aren't worth the spell slot here, as opposed to a DMed game where those can change encounters or beat challenges. Also, Larian Encounter Design aims to render AoE CC effects useless, so those are far less useful as well.

Spell recovery is good, but no comparison to Warlock's short rest refresh or Sorcerer's spell points. And Bard gets their choice of all the spells in the game alongside the incredible power of Bardic Inspiration. Cutting Words in particular is incredibly strong.

Charisma is a far more useful attribute than Intelligence. Charisma as a primary stat allows for multiclassing into Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Paladin. Intelligence is used by Wizard and only Wizard. And all those social skills you want are based on Charisma as well.

Wizards aren't bad in an overall sense, but compared to most other casters, they just aren't quite as strong.

[Mizu]

The fact that the game throws a ton of spell scrolls your way and lets a sorcerer use metamagic on those scrolls really hurt wizards usual upside of being 'more versatile' then a sorcerer, I think. Same goes for Warlocks to a lesser extent. I mean, obviously scrolls can't make up the versatility difference entirely but it still hurts the wizards man claim to fame. Combine that with most people using their PC as the group face character and charisma being the best trait for a face character in conversations and thats why a lot of people sleep on making a wizard PC if they choose to play a caster.

[Quillithe]

Publicado originalmente por Black Hammer:

Wizards are just less useful than Bards, Sorcs, and Warlocks.

Wizard's wider spell list barely matters as most utility spells aren't worth the spell slot here, as opposed to a DMed game where those can change encounters or beat challenges. Also, Larian Encounter Design aims to render AoE CC effects useless, so those are far less useful as well.

Spell recovery is good, but no comparison to Warlock's short rest refresh or Sorcerer's spell points. And Bard gets their choice of all the spells in the game alongside the incredible power of Bardic Inspiration. Cutting Words in particular is incredibly strong.

Charisma is a far more useful attribute than Intelligence. Charisma as a primary stat allows for multiclassing into Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Paladin. Intelligence is used by Wizard and only Wizard. And all those social skills you want are based on Charisma as well.

Wizards aren't bad in an overall sense, but compared to most other casters, they just aren't quite as strong.

This is kinda opposite my experience - utility spells don't take a spell slot, you just swap them in when needed. Getting free access to feather fall and enhance jump is pretty nice.

Larian encounter design doesn't seem to make AoE CC weak, I've found it pretty strong in general.

Detect thoughts can fill in for a bunch of skills in the most important interactions.

And a lot of the wizard school bonuses are pretty solid too.

Not saying they can necessarily match a Sorc in raw power, but they really aren't that far behind.

[Vaein]

i played a warlock first playthrough and wizard second. I love both classes for different reasons. having high CHA and book of shadows with eldritch incantations plus blast, is a lot of fun. However my wizard is just straight up versatile, between scrolls, spell slots, and preparing spells, there was never an encounter or puzzle my wizard could not solve. Wizard is just a thinking mans class not a blaster. as a wizzie if you are not prepared correctly you do get stomped on or can become useless in a fight, or you can create water and send a lightening bolt through everyone, or throw up a cloud kill and then explode it with a fireball. or fly plus haste and be everyone at once. The trick with wizard is you have to put a lot of thought into it, vs warlock its just a lot of eldritch blasting people off cliffs.

[AIntPJZ]

Wizard are fun and very useful or just one shot Raphael with your one trick poney warlock for epeen creds. Nobody care. At the end of the day, you can win any fight with any class and any build. Rapheal doesn't care if it takes you 10 turns to kill him or just one.

[Cyrus]

Reason is simple, scrolls are strong while memorizing spells is weak. Even when I have found ways to get scrolls way in advance, I would never be able to learn them,meaning I had to hoarde them until act 3.

This as a result makes wizard useless in bg3 as many of the spells they would have are busted. We are also missing spells and concentration spells where nerfed so that people throw bombs instead. Furthermore Wizard always is good due to expanded spells lists OUTSIDE OF MAIN HANDBOOK. Base wizard is weak.

Eg:

Rune of warding can't be used to store concentration spells. This is the main reason you ever take a wizard over a warlock.

scrolls writing to allow martial to use buffs at heightened level. (Scroll savant). Spells like False Life, aid being made by wizards from excess spellslots that they did not use / did not need, to prevent wasting slots.

wizards used to be mandatory to make most pots, flasks and enchantments. Bg3 did away with that role making wizards absolutely useless.

Many of the abjuration, chronomancy, divination, transmutation spells are entirely missing. These are needed to use get the full use of a wizard. In tabletop a divination wizard can guarantee players a nat 20 on almost all checks. Larian must have seen it.... ran for their life the other way.

[Lucifronz]

Publicado originalmente por Knavenformed:

Publicado originalmente por Forblaze:

They're also both charisma based classes, which makes them suited for a main character.

This.
Being able to make the whole battleground an advantage with the different tile based AOEs or a triple cast hold person just winning a battle completely, just talking your way to a favorable outcome while being a supportive powerhouse is phenomenal.

I think they meant specifically that since Charisma is your social stat, it benefits you in dialogue as well as combat.

But yes, Sorcerer and Warlock are very good classes to play first time through. Lots of versatility as a Sorcerer and powerful spells, and a Warlock's eldritch blast can be devastating as it becomes more improved (being able to eventually fire THREE times and knock people back off cliffs or just away from you is very overpowered when applied correctly).

[TALONI]

Sorcerer class twinned haste spell is probably the strongest spell in game, as it double two fighters' damage output for 10 turns. That is like 400+ dmg output per turn, on tactician mode most end game boss has just 600 hp and no immunity to physical damage.

Wizard has the benefit one haste spell, summon a lvl 6 elemental, and evocation subclass avoid AOE friendly fire,

Warlock has eldritch blast + summon lvl 6 elemental but has NO HASTE.

Limited spell slot is what make the caster classes so weak in game, as fighter can consistently dish out 100+ dmg per turn, why do player want a class that need constant rest to recoup the most high damage spells.

However, I will play 4 caster class in 3rd play-through as caster class are more powerful if can combo spells (water + call lighting) or (grease + fireball) or (lvl 6 cleric feast that immune poison + cloud kill). Cloud kill is quite fun when it only hurts the enemies, its deal a lot of aoe damage and also movable for 10 turns.

The limited spell slots is no longer an issue once know when can long rest to recover spell slots. So caster classes are much better once people played to act 3 at least once.

[Ingvar]

Wizard is my favorite class in the game. I also played as Sorcerer and Warlock. Warlock was a total snooze fest for me, and Sorcs meta magic is fun at the start and certainly powerful, but I don't think it's better or more fun than the spell variety a Wizard provides.

In the later game, I also don't run out of spells before I have to rest anyway (because of story elements or clerics, paladin etc being out of spell slots). At the start of the game that was certainly the case though.

Besides spell variety as such, you get summoning, some unique spells (incl. a familiar) and so on. Of course you can game the system with respecing, but otherwise I also don't know why Wizards would be worse than any of the other caster classes.

Some of it personal taste of course.

Now, if you compare them to melee classes, it generally feels that melee is more powerful than casters in BG3. Better and just many more items, the way haste works in comparison to 5e. But still, having a caster around can help you in many situations.

I have been through the whole game twice as a Wizard main, and almost finished with my Sorcerer playthrough, and I do not see the big difference between Charisma and Intelligence. Or who has cooler dialogue options. Charisma tests are more common of course, but INT based checks are also relatively common, and often it can be fun to fail tests too. A high charisma character can be more boring.

Of course they provide you with a INT item very early in the game, whereas there is nothing like that for Charisma at that stage. If at all, itemization would be the problem in my view.

[guppy]

Publicado originalmente por Prorok:

I see a lot of admiration for warlock and sorcerer...and so few people simply recommend wizard. I can't understand it.

As a wizard:

1. I have enormous freedom of spells. Depending on the fight, I can set completely different ones. But I still have more of them than, for example, a sorcerer. I don't have to respec every now and then.
   
2. It's easier for me to experiment with different spells and have more fun playing the game
   
3. Use some spells from the conjuration and necromancy schools... and then change the slots to other spells. Currently, as a necromancer, I can go into battle with 9+ different creatures (2x imp, 4x skeletons, mummy, elemental, shovel) and there is also Danse Macabre...

It's because of synergy - wizards is realistically the only class that relies on int. Eldrich Knight is by far the least popular subclass, so that only leaves Arcane trickster where having a high int is really just a nice bonus.

Compare that to to Str/Dex/Cha that each have strong classes/subclasses that have nice synergy and you will understand why.

Going pure wizard isn't a bad choice mind you, but it doesn't really allow you to make it truly your character the way multi classing does.

It doesn't really help that we are missing some of the best wizard sub classes ( bladesinger, warmagic ) and the ones that are left in the game simply isn't coded in a way where you can take advantage of their potential - like the Illusion school.
It easy to understand why as it would be really hard to account for every hare brained scheme a player could come up with but as it is illusion magic is basically useless where it's even included in the game.

But come on at least have silent image in the game in a way that would let me hide doors/corridors(fake wall) or making broken floor/bridges seem intact ( so enemies fall to their doom if they fail to spot the illusion )

So as it is, wizard is a viable if somewhat sub par choice that's best relegated to a support nuker. This isn't the role most people are looking to fill in their heroic fantasy game :)

[Belegc]

As others have stated in this thread, some (I would argue most) players wants to have their own character dealing with the dialogues (hence Charisma checks) and possibly lockpicking/trap disarming (Dex). you obviously need some CON as well on any char so that doesn't leave much for an INT based class that lacks these useful proficiencies as well.

however, I have currently started another playthrough as an Abjuration Wizard and its great so far. a completely different playstyle from the traditional "fireball flinging" caster.

[OnlyOffensive]

why are you guys rate fireballs so high? Are you on low difficulties or smth? DEX save spells dont work half of the time. Divination wizard actually make them work more or less.

I swear since i picked cone of cold it never once landed non save damage.

The fact that wizards dont have spellsave DC on their schools is also weird to me. Doesnt sound like "specialization".

Anything that posses a threat rarely not gonna save evoc spells and while kill a bunch of useless minions kinda fun, its not really gamebreaking.