i just learned dnd is removing half-elves and half-orcs

[D-Black Catto]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/04/04/dungeons-dragons-to-remove-half-species-from-players-handbook-claims-entire-the-entire-idea-is-inherently-racist/

and im just happy baldurs gate 3 comes out before this insanity kicks in. imagine a world without jaheira!

edit: apparently they are just reworking the half system to make any race being able to be a half. pretty cool tbh

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

And it's a shame.

There already is almost no reason to play a human in D&D because no matter what class you play as another race will do it better, but the way it is makes making an all-human party pretty interesting because the players will find creative ways around their limitations and no character will be weak either. Humans can be decent at every class.

If players are limited to humans and standard array, humans are the only race in the game that can work for literally every class, and now, unfortunately with the direction WotC is taking D&D, as you noted, humans may as well not exist.

I wonder how the people who say BG1 and 2 are better would react if BG3 did the same thing that BG1 and 2 did and make humasn the only race that can be every class and restrict which class you can be for every other race.

It's also very telling that those who choose to play Human characters pretty much choose the Variant Human exclusively, and the only explanation I've heard as to why, is that it's because they get a free feat at level 1.

That's it... the only thing they care about is getting that early bonus feat... I'm guessing they can't come up with any other reasons, because they know that humans are bland as bread!

[Aldain]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

It's also very telling that those who choose to play Human characters pretty much choose the Variant Human exclusively, and the only explanation I've heard as to why, is that it's because they get a free feat at level 1.

That's it... the only thing they care about is getting that early bonus feat... I'm guessing they can't come up with any other reasons, because they know that humans are bland as bread!

I like playing a human to experience a fantastical world from a familiar perspective.

I just prefer Variant Human because 5e Human is mechanically a joke.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

I wonder how the people who say BG1 and 2 are better would react if BG3 did the same thing that BG1 and 2 did and make humasn the only race that can be every class and restrict which class you can be for every other race.

That was such a silly rule - not as bad as the xp caps, but really - not a SINGLE elf becomes a druid or bard? Only humans can become paladins for some reason?

Heck, Mazzy's whole existence points out how silly it is to have a LG Halfling god who would obviously have a Paladin order if not for the fact that Halflings can't be paladins arbitrarily.

I mean, it's already kinda weird that the LG Paladin orders are all explicitly racist in the setting. Or the universe is? Or both?

[Snaxxor]

I play human when there is no other race I like tbh, like when there is no furry races to play as, I play human

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

I wonder how the people who say BG1 and 2 are better would react if BG3 did the same thing that BG1 and 2 did and make humasn the only race that can be every class and restrict which class you can be for every other race.

That was such a silly rule - not as bad as the xp caps, but really - not a SINGLE elf becomes a druid or bard? Only humans can become paladins for some reason?

Heck, Mazzy's whole existence points out how silly it is to have a LG Halfling god who would obviously have a Paladin order if not for the fact that Halflings can't be paladins arbitrarily.

I mean, it's already kinda weird that the LG Paladin orders are all explicitly racist in the setting. Or the universe is? Or both?

Eh, I wouldn't really call them racist.

In the timeline of the Forgotten Realms, BG1-2 takes place when Drizzt was the only good-aligned Drow on the surface. If you saw a dark elf, you'd be foolish not to assume that they're evil. Keldorn may have been a bit trigger-happy with Viconia, but Viconia was 100% a murderous psychopath worshipping an evil goddess, so he surely wasn't wrong. And he can Detect Evil to determine her alignment, too. It's been a while since I played BG2, but I'm pretty sure he'll even turn on the party if they attack Drizzt, so he's not blinded by race.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

It's also very telling that those who choose to play Human characters pretty much choose the Variant Human exclusively, and the only explanation I've heard as to why, is that it's because they get a free feat at level 1.

That's it... the only thing they care about is getting that early bonus feat... I'm guessing they can't come up with any other reasons, because they know that humans are bland as bread!

I like playing a human to experience a fantastical world from a familiar perspective.

I just prefer Variant Human because 5e Human is mechanically a joke.

I kinda wonder if having playable non-human races was really a good idea at all. It was basically thrown in just because people wanted to play Legolas and Gimli, but it's led to a setting where elves are just normal and 'balanced' which isn't very much like LotR elves at all anyway.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

That was such a silly rule - not as bad as the xp caps, but really - not a SINGLE elf becomes a druid or bard? Only humans can become paladins for some reason?

Heck, Mazzy's whole existence points out how silly it is to have a LG Halfling god who would obviously have a Paladin order if not for the fact that Halflings can't be paladins arbitrarily.

I mean, it's already kinda weird that the LG Paladin orders are all explicitly racist in the setting. Or the universe is? Or both?

Eh, I wouldn't really call them racist.

In the timeline of the Forgotten Realms, BG1-2 takes place when Drizzt was the only good-aligned Drow on the surface. If you saw a dark elf, you'd be foolish not to assume that they're evil. Keldorn may have been a bit trigger-happy with Viconia, but Viconia was 100% a murderous psychopath worshipping an evil goddess, so he surely wasn't wrong. And he can Detect Evil to determine her alignment, too. It's been a while since I played BG2, but I'm pretty sure he'll even turn on the party if they attack Drizzt, so he's not blinded by race.

Oh, I don't mean for the Viconia thing - though that always feels a bit out of character for Keldorn.

I mean the fact that Paladin orders all refuse non-humans

Keldorn: My lady Nalia, understand this: Any soul of any social rank may join the Holy Orders and therein be judged by the purity of their heart, male or female.
...unlike some who take it upon themselves to criticize, we were not born into wealth and luxury.
Nalia: And yet these halls and all your sacred vows are reserved only for us humans... Believe what lies you wish, Keldorn, but it shan't make them any truer.

I mean, she does have a point there, it's kinda awkward that they refuse someone for even having some non-human blood like half-elves.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Aldain:

I like playing a human to experience a fantastical world from a familiar perspective.

I just prefer Variant Human because 5e Human is mechanically a joke.

I kinda wonder if having playable non-human races was really a good idea at all. It was basically thrown in just because people wanted to play Legolas and Gimli, but it's led to a setting where elves are just normal and 'balanced' which isn't very much like LotR elves at all anyway.

It's a fine idea, people are just all built different and like different things.

Some people truly do want to hardcore roleplay a perpetually drunk Dwarf Bard that fights with a shark on a stick they call a "spear", others just want to go on an adventure and experience it as if they were there themselves like me.

There is not, and should not be a wrong way to go about things (outside of a super railroading DM or being people an ass to your DM of course).

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Eh, I wouldn't really call them racist.

In the timeline of the Forgotten Realms, BG1-2 takes place when Drizzt was the only good-aligned Drow on the surface. If you saw a dark elf, you'd be foolish not to assume that they're evil. Keldorn may have been a bit trigger-happy with Viconia, but Viconia was 100% a murderous psychopath worshipping an evil goddess, so he surely wasn't wrong. And he can Detect Evil to determine her alignment, too. It's been a while since I played BG2, but I'm pretty sure he'll even turn on the party if they attack Drizzt, so he's not blinded by race.

Oh, I don't mean for the Viconia thing - though that always feels a bit out of character for Keldorn.

I mean the fact that Paladin orders all refuse non-humans

Keldorn: My lady Nalia, understand this: Any soul of any social rank may join the Holy Orders and therein be judged by the purity of their heart, male or female.
...unlike some who take it upon themselves to criticize, we were not born into wealth and luxury.
Nalia: And yet these halls and all your sacred vows are reserved only for us humans... Believe what lies you wish, Keldorn, but it shan't make them any truer.

I mean, she does have a point there, it's kinda awkward that they refuse someone for even having some non-human blood like half-elves.

Oh right, that. You have a point there. I don't remember the in-universe explanation for why only humans could be paladins, but I'm glad subsequent editions did away with the restriction.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Some people truly do want to hardcore roleplay a perpetually drunk Dwarf Bard that fights with a shark on a stick they call a "spear", others just want to go on an adventure and experience it as if they were there themselves like me.

Who doesn't want to play a perpetually drunk Dwarf Bard that fights with a shark on a stick they call a "spear"?

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Aldain:

Some people truly do want to hardcore roleplay a perpetually drunk Dwarf Bard that fights with a shark on a stick they call a "spear", others just want to go on an adventure and experience it as if they were there themselves like me.

Who doesn't want to play a perpetually drunk Dwarf Bard that fights with a shark on a stick they call a "spear"?

Me, not my cup of tea, I'd rather subtly goad the Dwarf into doing something stupid and watch the DM have to work around it while being at JUST safe enough of a distance to not catch the inevitable flak from an irate DM.

...In short I like playing as a Human because it is very easy to slip into the background and watch the eccentrics in the party make a show, while also being on snark duty.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Aldain:

I like playing a human to experience a fantastical world from a familiar perspective.

I just prefer Variant Human because 5e Human is mechanically a joke.

I kinda wonder if having playable non-human races was really a good idea at all. It was basically thrown in just because people wanted to play Legolas and Gimli, but it's led to a setting where elves are just normal and 'balanced' which isn't very much like LotR elves at all anyway.

I reached the conclusion years ago that people aren't really capable of roleplaying non-humans (understandably so, they are basically aliens) and only choose them for cosmetic reasons.

Also, having non-human races "normalizes the mysterious", thus eliminating the mystery, of folklore and mythology.

I therefore decided that my players would only play humans, and that all "elves", "dwarves", "gnomes" and other creatures are just fey creatures of one type or another, not civilized people like humans (settling in cities, engaging in commerce, etc.) though they can obviously be very intelligent.

In essence, I returned all the elves to the feywild, where they belong, and gave the earth back to humans.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

That was such a silly rule - not as bad as the xp caps, but really - not a SINGLE elf becomes a druid or bard? Only humans can become paladins for some reason?

Heck, Mazzy's whole existence points out how silly it is to have a LG Halfling god who would obviously have a Paladin order if not for the fact that Halflings can't be paladins arbitrarily.

I mean, it's already kinda weird that the LG Paladin orders are all explicitly racist in the setting. Or the universe is? Or both?

The noble lady who gives you the fortress also calls them out for only accepting humans, if I'm not mistaken?

But yeah, I was very confused when I saw that only Humans and Half Elves could be Druids back in the day. Like, come on, at the very least the WOOD ELVES should be joining a circle of two. Same goes for the Forest Gnomes, and maaaybe the occasional Hill Dwarf.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

I reached the conclusion years ago that people aren't really capable of roleplaying non-humans (understandably so, they are basically aliens) and only choose them for cosmetic reasons.

People who think playing non-human characters properly is impossible because of their alien mindset, clearly haven't thought about the situation from an atypical / neuro-divergent perspective. :-)

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I kinda wonder if having playable non-human races was really a good idea at all. It was basically thrown in just because people wanted to play Legolas and Gimli, but it's led to a setting where elves are just normal and 'balanced' which isn't very much like LotR elves at all anyway.

I reached the conclusion years ago that people aren't really capable of roleplaying non-humans (understandably so, they are basically aliens) and only choose them for cosmetic reasons.

Also, having non-human races "normalizes the mysterious", thus eliminating the mystery, of folklore and mythology.

I therefore decided that my players would only play humans, and that all "elves", "dwarves", "gnomes" and other creatures are just fey creatures of one type or another, not civilized people like humans (settling in cities, engaging in commerce, etc.) though they can obviously be very intelligent.

In essence, I returned all the elves to the feywild, where they belong, and gave the earth back to humans.

You don't think anybody can pull off a non-human character?

Well damn. I'm sure many tables don't exactly have people diving into their character, but I hope you'll allow for the existence of some DnD players who can do it. My two favorite PCs that I've played were both particularly inhuman, a warforged and a feylost eladrin, and as a DM I've needed to convincingly embody all sorts of alien creatures.