i just learned dnd is removing half-elves and half-orcs

[D-Black Catto]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/04/04/dungeons-dragons-to-remove-half-species-from-players-handbook-claims-entire-the-entire-idea-is-inherently-racist/

and im just happy baldurs gate 3 comes out before this insanity kicks in. imagine a world without jaheira!

edit: apparently they are just reworking the half system to make any race being able to be a half. pretty cool tbh

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

or just cynically jump on the possibility to wield the controversy like a weapon

Ding ding ding, winner winner, chicken dinner!

Which is why I can't take these things seriously.

I do think the wokescolds at WotC (or Hasbro, or whatever) are just making stuff up to justify their salaries, but at the same time I've also been playing D&D (and games in general) to realize that players can continue to use old/existing rules, or homebrew any way they want to. D&D has always been that way, and in fact encouraged it.

I wasn't even involved in D&D between the 3rd and 4th editions, having quit while 2nd was still going strong.

And I'm thinking of pickinf up a set of 1st edition AD&D just out of nostalgia.

If you don't like where D&D is going right now, do one of the following:

• Play older editions
• Play something else
• Create your own ttrpg
• Participate in the OneD&D beta feedback period

[Yojo0o]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Yojo0o:

Then say that.

Sure, I agree, it comes across as silly and unnecessary. But I take issue when you and others frame it as some sort of race purity manifesto.

Once again, because it is. They don't like the idea of characters getting traits from two or possibly even more races, so they force you to pick one and discard the others. How are we supposed to interpret that in any way other than them wanting us to play exclusively pure blood races?


This isn't some mobile gacha game. We didn't get into the hobby to decorate our characters with useless cosmetics options.

Then I fundamentally cannot even begin to respect your opinion, and will need to block you. This hasn't been fun, and I worry about your impact on those who you interact with in this and other mediums.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Yojo0o:

Then say that.

Sure, I agree, it comes across as silly and unnecessary. But I take issue when you and others frame it as some sort of race purity manifesto.

Once again, because it is. They don't like the idea of characters getting traits from two or possibly even more races, so they force you to pick one and discard the others. How are we supposed to interpret that in any way other than them wanting us to play exclusively pure blood races?

That's literally for game balance reasons. 🤦‍♂️🙄

[Yojo0o]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Pan Darius Loveless:

or just cynically jump on the possibility to wield the controversy like a weapon

Ding ding ding, winner winner, chicken dinner!

Which is why I can't take these things seriously.

I do think the wokescolds at WotC (or Hasbro, or whatever) are just making stuff up to justify their salaries, but at the same time I've also been playing D&D (and games in general) to realize that players can continue to use old/existing rules, or homebrew any way they want to. D&D has always been that way, and in fact encouraged it.

I wasn't even involved in D&D between the 3rd and 4th editions, having quit while 2nd was still going strong.

And I'm thinking of pickinf up a set of 1st edition AD&D just out of nostalgia.

If you don't like where D&D is going right now, do one of the following:

• Play older editions
• Play something else
• Create your own ttrpg
• Participate in the OneD&D beta feedback period

The fact that this is a feedback period playtest seems to really be understated around here. Even the "species" distinction seems open to discussion, from recent chatter. Ardlings got reworked multiple times. And it's not like BG3 is going to be overhauled at the eleventh hour anyway.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Quillithe:

Wait, if you think they aren't the same species what's the big problem with calling them species?

If you have an issue with the new cross-species rules being mechanically lacking, sure. But that doesn't have anything to do with racism. You can dislike rules changes without them being racist.

My problem isn't with the terminology, my problem is with mixing two different species together, and acting like the child is no different from a pure blood version of whoever's traits they end up using.

If I cross an Elf and an Orc, you best believe the children coming out of that are gonna have some mixed qualities that extend beyond surface level appearances.

[Quillithe]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Pan Darius Loveless:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

Once again, because it is. They don't like the idea of characters getting traits from two or possibly even more races, so they force you to pick one and discard the others. How are we supposed to interpret that in any way other than them wanting us to play exclusively pure blood races?

That's literally for game balance reasons. 🤦‍♂️🙄

Obviously when there's no mechanical advantage to playing a 'pure-blood' race it means the game is trying to force us to play one because WotC is literally Hitler I can only assume.

[Quillithe]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Quillithe:

Wait, if you think they aren't the same species what's the big problem with calling them species?

If you have an issue with the new cross-species rules being mechanically lacking, sure. But that doesn't have anything to do with racism. You can dislike rules changes without them being racist.

My problem isn't with the terminology, my problem is with mixing two different species together, and acting like the child is no different from a pure blood version of whoever's traits they end up using.

If I cross an Elf and an Orc, you best believe the children coming out of that are gonna have some mixed qualities that extend beyond surface level appearances.

Yeah, that's what my second paragraph was about - it's mechanically lacking.

But what does this have to do with racism?

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Pan Darius Loveless:

That's literally for game balance reasons. 🤦‍♂️🙄

That is a colossal sized mountain of bull crap, and you damn well know it. D&D has been around for close to 50 years by this point, and nobody complained about how mixing up the races was unbalancing for the game.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Quillithe:

But what does this have to do with racism?

"The only race is the human race!"

Come on, everybody. Let's all hold hands, and dance around the campfire. It doesn't matter if you're an Elf, an Orc, a Kobold or a Bugbear.

We're all human on the inside, and you can be anything you want in society, as long as you work hard and believe in yourself!

----------------------

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As many times as I need to.

Diversity is a trait that was meant to be exclusively applicable to HUMANS. It was the one and only thing that made them stand out from all the other races.

Every other race had defining traits and characteristics. Elves were agile, beautiful and gifted with magic. Dwarves were stubborn, tough and hard working. Orcs were strong, brutal and fierce.

These traits made them excel above humans in a particular field, but at the cost of making them less effective in others. That's why humans became the dominant race of their respective settings, while the others trailed behind them.

But in their attempt to expand the range of creative options, WOTC has stripped Humanity of its signature trait. All the races are being diversified now, which means there's no reason for humans to stick around anymore. The DM can toss them from the setting, and people wouldn't even notice because every other race in the game can do what humans do, only better.

[Quillithe]

So, nothing? Okay.

[Lord Adorable]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Quillithe:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

My problem isn't with the terminology, my problem is with mixing two different species together, and acting like the child is no different from a pure blood version of whoever's traits they end up using.

If I cross an Elf and an Orc, you best believe the children coming out of that are gonna have some mixed qualities that extend beyond surface level appearances.

Yeah, that's what my second paragraph was about - it's mechanically lacking.

But what does this have to do with racism?

It has two things to do with racism.
Jack and ♥♥♥♥.

[KeepCleaving]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Quillithe:

But what does this have to do with racism?

"The only race is the human race!"

Come on, everybody. Let's all hold hands, and dance around the campfire. It doesn't matter if you're an Elf, an Orc, a Kobold or a Bugbear.

We're all human on the inside, and you can be anything you want in society, as long as you work hard and believe in yourself!

----------------------

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As many times as I need to.

Diversity is a trait that was meant to be exclusively applicable to HUMANS. It was the one and only thing that made them stand out from all the other races.

Every other race had defining traits and characteristics. Elves were agile, beautiful and gifted with magic. Dwarves were stubborn, tough and hard working. Orcs were savage, brutal and fierce.

These traits made them excel above humans in a particular field, but at the cost of making them less effective in others. That's why humans became the dominant race of their respective settings, while the others trailed behind them.

But in their attempt to expand the range of creative options, WOTC has stripped Humanity of its signature trait. All the races are being diversified now, which means there's no reason for humans to stick around anymore. The DM can toss them from the setting, and people wouldn't even notice because every other race in the game can do what humans do, only better.

I wouldn't bother trying so hard to get through to these few GrandMajora. This is typically what they do and why they get in trouble.

Kind of reminds me of when the OGL came out and some people bought into the lie "It's just a draft". Only to find out that it was asked to be signed by companies like Kobold Press on day one of receiving it.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KeepCleaving:

I wouldn't bother trying so hard to get through to these few GrandMajora. This is typically what they do and why they get in trouble.

Kind of reminds me of when the OGL came out and some people bought into the lie "It's just a draft". Only to find out that it was asked to be signed by companies like Kobold Press on day one of receiving it.

Feel like you should put 'asked' in some pretty massive air quotes on that one.

There's not a single soul in the industry who genuinely believes this was meant to be a draft. That's just WOTC desperately trying to cover their asses upon being caught.

If this was actually a draft, then why did they wait 2 weeks to clarify it as such? They were practically radio silent the entire time!

[Dragon Master]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As many times as I need to.

Diversity is a trait that was meant to be exclusively applicable to HUMANS. It was the one and only thing that made them stand out from all the other races.

Every other race had defining traits and characteristics. Elves were agile, beautiful and gifted with magic. Dwarves were stubborn, tough and hard working. Orcs were savage, brutal and fierce.

These traits made them excel above humans in a particular field, but at the cost of making them less effective in others. That's why humans became the dominant race of their respective settings, while the others trailed behind them.

But in their attempt to expand the range of creative options, WOTC has stripped Humanity of its signature trait. All the races are being diversified now, which means there's no reason for humans to stick around anymore. The DM can toss them from the setting, and people wouldn't even notice because every other race in the game can do what humans do, only better.

And it's a shame.

There already is almost no reason to play a human in D&D because no matter what class you play as another race will do it better, but the way it is makes making an all-human party pretty interesting because the players will find creative ways around their limitations and no character will be weak either. Humans can be decent at every class.

If players are limited to humans and standard array, humans are the only race in the game that can work for literally every class, and now, unfortunately with the direction WotC is taking D&D, as you noted, humans may as well not exist.

I wonder how the people who say BG1 and 2 are better would react if BG3 did the same thing that BG1 and 2 did and make humasn the only race that can be every class and restrict which class you can be for every other race.

[Yojo0o]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dragon Master:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GrandMajora:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As many times as I need to.

Diversity is a trait that was meant to be exclusively applicable to HUMANS. It was the one and only thing that made them stand out from all the other races.

Every other race had defining traits and characteristics. Elves were agile, beautiful and gifted with magic. Dwarves were stubborn, tough and hard working. Orcs were savage, brutal and fierce.

These traits made them excel above humans in a particular field, but at the cost of making them less effective in others. That's why humans became the dominant race of their respective settings, while the others trailed behind them.

But in their attempt to expand the range of creative options, WOTC has stripped Humanity of its signature trait. All the races are being diversified now, which means there's no reason for humans to stick around anymore. The DM can toss them from the setting, and people wouldn't even notice because every other race in the game can do what humans do, only better.

And it's a shame.

There already is almost no reason to play a human in D&D because no matter what class you play as another race will do it better, but the way it is makes making an all-human party pretty interesting because the players will find creative ways around their limitations and no character will be weak either. Humans can be decent at every class.

If players are limited to humans and standard array, humans are the only race in the game that can work for literally every class, and now, unfortunately with the direction WotC is taking D&D, as you noted, humans may as well not exist.

I wonder how the people who say BG1 and 2 are better would react if BG3 did the same thing that BG1 and 2 did and make humasn the only race that can be every class and restrict which class you can be for every other race.

Humans sucked in BG1-2, too. The only reason to play them was because being a paladin or being a dual-class was arbitrarily restricted to human-only.

Variant human in 5e, which is becoming the baseline human template in OneDnD, more than justifies playing as a human, to the point of being among the most powerful race options available.