Eldritch Knight is Unplayable

[Seyton]

Without EKs core cantrips like Green-Flame Blade, Shadow Blade and Booming Blade, the entire subclass is entirely useless. Its like releasing Wizard and not having Magic Missile or druids without wild shapes.

And while I know mods can add in cantrips, they are all largely buggy and unreliable.

Surely it would not be insurmountable to fix an entire subclass by releasing a few cantrips which necessarily need to be in the game for it to work.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Of course it's probably still weaker than Battle Master since enemies don't pick up their weapons again and just try to punch you, but that's not really EK's fault.

They don't? I always assumed they would, so after disarming them I was picking it up myself.

I never saw it happen and apparently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGbLSKtMkLk

They technically can but will prefer any other action so they'll run up and smack you if they can get to you in any way.

[Koarpse]

Sounds like a classic case of skill issue.

[Kelemdros]

There is mods adding what you need.

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Originally posted by Ranpo:

Sounds like a gimped mage or a gimped fighter.

How is that gimped? You get level 2 spells earlier than EK, you get two subclasses, what exactly do you gimp? Any multiclass is gimped compared to full class, but you get things you otherwise wouldnt.

If you multiclass it to the point of having a school it means you forgo the 3rd attack.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

How is that gimped? You get level 2 spells earlier than EK, you get two subclasses, what exactly do you gimp? Any multiclass is gimped compared to full class, but you get things you otherwise wouldnt.

If you multiclass it to the point of having a school it means you forgo the 3rd attack.

Yeah, I think people acting like it's a poor fighter/wizard need to remember that the only thing you give up from fighter is likely superiority die.

Which are good, yeah, but you also do get shield and misty step just to pick two spells, which are also pretty good.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Dillon:

Calling 5E's iteration of wild-shape bad is just not an opinion I can agree with.

It's one of the most powerful and versatile mechanics in the entire system; it was broken before they buffed it. The ability to give yourself hundreds of free hp as a bonus action and still match attacks per round with a fighter is absurd. And that's before you get the myrmidons and things start getting really crazy.

Are you sure you're thinking of the same system? Moon druid was universally considered broken in tabletop too; the owlbear is just extra gravy.

It's a utility power at best. Moon Druids can wildshape into a CR of 1/3rd their level, meaning that after you get past the early game, none of your animal shapes will actually pose a threat to the kind of creatures you are supposed to be facing. You think a CR 6 Beast is going to do anything more than tickle a Balor / Ancient Dragon?

It's not like you're playing Tucker's Kobolds here, you're just turning into an animal made to handle a party 1/3rd your actual level.

If anybody is calling the power broken, it's probably because they played low level campaigns where the ability to Wildshape is still somewhat useful.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Starwight/ttv:

Meanwhile the spells you list here only came into being with Tasha's Cauldron, which was released YEARS after the Players Handbook?

Actually GFB and BB came out in the Sword Coast Adventurers guide which was released in 2015.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

You think a CR 6 Beast is going to do anything more than tickle a Balor / Ancient Dragon?

Yes. Because CR is not Level, remember, an Archmagw is a CR 12 and that's largely because of the 9th level spell.

But, CR 6 or less useful against a Balor or Ancient Dragon.

Any Elemental form. Mammoth, Grant Crocodile,... I'm sure I could get creative but just glancing casually all three of those stand out as very useful.

Also, you're part of a group. Not solo. The only transformation that outstrips Moon Wild Shaoe is using a 9th level spell slot. And the Moon Druid can do that too.

[⇧⇨⇩⇩⇩]

Originally posted by Seyton:

Without EKs core cantrips like Green-Flame Blade, Shadow Blade and Booming Blade, the entire subclass is entirely useless. Its like releasing Wizard and not having Magic Missile or druids without wild shapes.

And while I know mods can add in cantrips, they are all largely buggy and unreliable.

Surely it would not be insurmountable to fix an entire subclass by releasing a few cantrips which necessarily need to be in the game for it to work.

Skill issue.

[Seyton]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I haven't tried it, but I still feel like the best plan for an EK is to get that arcane acuity helm and an off-class control spell or two with the wizard picks (or eventually 1 lvl wizard?)

Swing around, hitting whoever you really want to disable, action surge and then they have disadvantage and you have massive DC.

Concentrating on a spell then (I think) draws more attacks to your heavily armored fighter, and he has proficiency on con saves (and possibly war caster with all the feats AND Indomitable) so you probably won't break concentration anyway.

Of course it's probably still weaker than Battle Master since enemies don't pick up their weapons again and just try to punch you, but that's not really EK's fault.

You are right that there are items which help EK a lot, quite a few either give you a buff or debuff enemies when you melee or cast spells/cantrips. And this is one of the most fun parts of EK, putting together a range of items which give you fun effects. These items would be even better if you had something like EKs usual multi-attack cantrip.

But it doesn't fix the key problem which is the lack of cantrips undermines the entire thing. As others pointed out Bard 6/Multiclass is a better EK than EK.

My whole point is simply that adding in the few key EK cantrips fixes the class almost instantly without needing any drastic changes to EK or other classes.

[Seyton]

Originally posted by Koarpse:

Sounds like a classic case of skill issue.

Na. You could beat the game with four of any sub-class, it isn't a challenging game but that is also not the point. The point is EK exists without purpose missing its key qualities and fixing that isn't a huge ask.

[That Guy]

You're a fighter with wizard spells as utility, I played as a 7 edk 5 wizard and it was so tanky the ai just ignored him

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by That Guy:

You're a fighter with wizard spells as utility, I played as a 7 edk 5 wizard and it was so tanky the ai just ignored him

A Necromancer hath wroth it's foul powers upon this dead'nd thread!

Where art thou mighty Cleric to vanquish this force of depravity?!?

[iamcorn]

Honestly those melee attack cantrips aren't really THAT helpful for a class that gets multiattack anyway.

That said I do still wish GFB/BB were in this, yes.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by That Guy:

You're a fighter with wizard spells as utility, I played as a 7 edk 5 wizard and it was so tanky the ai just ignored him

Ah, the legendary armor rating of "Not Worth the Trouble."

Second only to the mythical "Plot" rating.