Ketheric Thorm! What a fascinating villain!

[Overlord Byron]

I mean, I assume.

Nobody seems to want to tell me much about him.

[Izlude]

Originally posted by Sinkitsune:

Originally posted by Fluke:

It's called a trope, and I found him personally too flat. He's not a bad villian, I just hoped for more interaction.

He has surprisingly very little to say to us for a game all about the flavor text. He feels rushed. also I think his VAer could have done way better being menacing. he just sounds like a disappointed dad the entire time. Even when he supposeably raises his voice it sounds like a older man whisper yelling

Sadly a lot of characters in this game sorta have the issue of feeling rushed or possibly having large swaths of content regarding them be cut entirely. The game kinda feels like its still in Early Access.

[Edible Eyebrows]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Originally posted by Fluke:

Books, dialogue, and exploration will tell you a lot about Ketheric Thorm.

It's nice that the game isn't terribly expository on it.

Without sharing too many spoilers. Thorm is written as a tragic villain whom fate threw into the place he took on.

If you want the spoilers I'm sure you can easily find them, but I found him to be a little flat personally.

Isnt it just "my wife died and now im gonna worship Shar and be evil, turn my family into abominations agains their will even though I know for a fact if I just stay a good guy ill die in likely a few years and be with my family again"?

I would call that not even shallow writing, its just plain dumb.

There is more there.

He was an amoral guy before his wife but turned to selune worship to get closer to her, though his faith was superficial at best.

He used faith as a means of gaining what he wanted, so when his wife died he saw it as a failing of his god, and turned to shar for help.

That didn't work out either since Shar is a manipulative liar, andhe pretty much screwed up his whole life trying to get his wife and kid back.

Third time's a charm he turns to the god of death and becom a ful blown necromancer. This time it kinda works but he ends up completely embroiled in this cult and becomes rightfully paranoid as his co conspirators are obviously going to turn on him sooner or later.

When we meet him he's pretty much given up on life, barely cares about he whole taking over the world thing and just wants to see his family as a shallow victory amongst the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ storm that is his life. It becomes very clear in the end that all of his evil actions were a fear of mortality itself and a sense of entitlement to control the uncontrollable.

Classic necromancer stuff.

Yes he is a generic necromancer villain, but I don't see that as bad writing. This is dungeons and dragons, we are meant to deal with generic fantasy villains and I think they did a pretty good portrayal of a legit necromancer. They saved the more unique villains for later, which is fine.

He is a frustrating villain who obviously sees the errors of his ways but is so far down this path that he can't just stop.
I liked him.

[Eviltoy]

Dont take spoilers and play and do what you want to do. The game and story is real best in game history.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Sinkitsune:

Originally posted by Fluke:

It's called a trope, and I found him personally too flat. He's not a bad villian, I just hoped for more interaction.

He has surprisingly very little to say to us for a game all about the flavor text. He feels rushed. also I think his VAer could have done way better being menacing. he just sounds like a disappointed dad the entire time. Even when he supposeably raises his voice it sounds like a older man whisper yelling

Personally I think his voice acting was one of his better features.
Instead of some screaming tyrant like anyone would come to expect from a big bad, he's calm and collected.

[Izlude]

Originally posted by Edible Eyebrows:

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Isnt it just "my wife died and now im gonna worship Shar and be evil, turn my family into abominations agains their will even though I know for a fact if I just stay a good guy ill die in likely a few years and be with my family again"?

I would call that not even shallow writing, its just plain dumb.

There is more there.

He was an amoral guy before his wife but turned to selune worship to get closer to her, though his faith was superficial at best.

He used faith as a means of gaining what he wanted, so when his wife died he saw it as a failing of his god, and turned to shar for help.

That didn't work out either since Shar is a manipulative liar, andhe pretty much screwed up his whole life trying to get his wife and kid back.

Third time's a charm he turns to the god of death and becom a ful blown necromancer. This time it kinda works but he ends up completely embroiled in this cult and becomes rightfully paranoid as his co conspirators are obviously going to turn on him sooner or later.

When we meet him he's pretty much given up on life, barely cares about he whole taking over the world thing and just wants to see his family as a shallow victory amongst the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ storm that is his life. It becomes very clear in the end that all of his evil actions were a fear of mortality itself and a sense of entitlement to control the uncontrollable.

Classic necromancer stuff.

Yes he is a generic necromancer villain, but I don't see that as bad writing. This is dungeons and dragons, we are meant to deal with generic fantasy villains and I think they did a pretty good portrayal of a legit necromancer. They saved the more unique villains for later, which is fine.

He is a frustrating villain who obviously sees the errors of his ways but is so far down this path that he can't just stop.
I liked him.

"there is more" but then you just described basically what I already said but added that he wasnt always moral. so there really wasnt more.

[arthum.inglorion]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

His reasons are pretty weak for how evil he acts.

He does feel like a father that made a lot of wrong choices only to bring his beloved daughter back to life after trying to do so for a good 100 years. What he was before his loss is long gone, he was corrupted by both time and deities leaving a shell of what he was in his past.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Sinkitsune:

Originally posted by Fluke:

It's called a trope, and I found him personally too flat. He's not a bad villian, I just hoped for more interaction.

. he just sounds like a disappointed dad the entire time. Even when he supposeably raises his voice it sounds like a older man whisper yelling

I think that's kind of the point, he's lived through so much that he's kind of tired of living and is pretty apathetic in general. Everything he loved is gone(or was gone) and his beliefs were shattered. All that's left of the man is a shadow of his former self.

[Izlude]

Originally posted by arthum.inglorion:

Originally posted by Philogosten:

His reasons are pretty weak for how evil he acts.

He does feel like a father that made a lot of wrong choices only to bring his beloved daughter back to life after trying to do so for a good 100 years. What he was before his loss is long gone, he was corrupted by both time and deities leaving a shell of what he was in his past.

Why do that when he knows for a fact he can just see all of his family again after he dies. In the real world gods arent proven to be real so dying is awful. but in the forgotten realms gods come and chat with people and give them magic and stuff. All he did was go "Hmm either I can see my wife and daughter again in a few years or I could doom myself to Shars realm where I will never be able to see my wife again"

[arthum.inglorion]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Why do that when he knows for a fact he can just see all of his family again after he dies. In the real world gods arent proven to be real so dying is awful. but in the forgotten realms gods come and chat with people and give them magic and stuff. All he did was go "Hmm either I can see my wife and daughter again in a few years or I could doom myself to Shars realm where I will never be able to see my wife again"

Desperation tends to do be one hell of a bad drug for some people. One who suffers loss can get desperate to find a solution and they might go the completely wrong way about it, also in that world he was looking for a deity that could bring his daughter back to life. He wanted for her to live, like any father would want. Also in that world gods tend to be manipulative and use mortals as their pawns to gain more power and authority, to which Shar is a good example as she was the first one to take him away from his faith.
At least that is how I see his character after everything I have read and heard in the game.

[Dragon Master]

Sometimes having a simple villain is a good thing. He's a man broken by time and tragedy. He doesn't need to be anything more though. He is still intimidating, especially in the scene where he tells the goblins to try again in killing him, and he is what introduces us to the reality of the larger plot behind the Cult of the Absolute.

He seems like the big bad until we see Orin and Gortash at the end of Act 2 and The Elder Brain. Literally every step of the journey leads to something bigger and more epic.

The journey starts with a search for a healer by a group of people who barely tolerate each other and becomes a nation saving adventure, or a nation conquering one depending on your choices.

It is the definition of a generic fantasy and there is nothing wrong with that. Tropes exist for a reason. People like them because they stand the test of time.

[GrandMajora]

Considering the guy seems to be a fairweather devotee, changing his allegiance from one god to the next based on his own personal desires, I'm going to take a wild guess and say he's part of the Wall of the Faithless now.

Rather ironic, for the 'Chosen of Myrkul', honestly.

[Fluke]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Originally posted by arthum.inglorion:

He does feel like a father that made a lot of wrong choices only to bring his beloved daughter back to life after trying to do so for a good 100 years. What he was before his loss is long gone, he was corrupted by both time and deities leaving a shell of what he was in his past.

Why do that when he knows for a fact he can just see all of his family again after he dies. In the real world gods arent proven to be real so dying is awful. but in the forgotten realms gods come and chat with people and give them magic and stuff. All he did was go "Hmm either I can see my wife and daughter again in a few years or I could doom myself to Shars realm where I will never be able to see my wife again"

While it's true that gods are provably real. There also isn't an internet in that time period, those who don't believe or stand against gods also exist.

In Ketheric's case, he turned to Shar more in anger with Selune. Blaming her for the suffering he endured.

Anger drives people to stupid places, and Ketheric does acknowledge this in game. He knows he's beyond forgiveness, he's done the most foolish things imaginable in an attempt to restore his lost life.

Sense doesn't really come into play until after the fact.

He's a tragic villain, and my only complaint is that we don't get more of him. He is revealed, and lost, entirely within the end of act 2. Where as Gortash and Orin are both revealed in act 2, and have significance in act 3 across several events.

It really feels like you experience only the end of ketheric and miss both beginning and middle.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Considering the guy seems to be a fairweather devotee, changing his allegiance from one god to the next based on his own personal desires, I'm going to take a wild guess and say he's part of the Wall of the Faithless now.

Rather ironic, for the 'Chosen of Myrkul', honestly.

Which is an irony in and of itself because Myrkul isn't a full deity any more after the second sundering. All the dead three gave up full divinity so they could meddle in the material plane.

Which is probably why Myrkul was able to bring Isobel back in the first place but Selune and Shar couldn't or wouldn't. Sure, a cleric of theirs could potentially have done so, but as we have established Ketheric is a fairweather worshiper so it is highly unlikely he'd have the faith or devotion to channel the power of either Selune or Shar even if they wanted to give him the power.

[BK-BERKE]

He is totally trash. Sad but it's true. Only Gortash is not bad but that's all. BG3 one of the biggest problem is Villains. All BG3 villains damaged by bad writing.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Which is an irony in and of itself because Myrkul isn't a full deity any more after the second sundering. All the dead three gave up full divinity so they could meddle in the material plane.

Which is probably why Myrkul was able to bring Isobel back in the first place but Selune and Shar couldn't or wouldn't. Sure, a cleric of theirs could potentially have done so, but as we have established Ketheric is a fairweather worshiper so it is highly unlikely he'd have the faith or devotion to channel the power of either Selune or Shar even if they wanted to give him the power.

Well, at one point in the game, they refer to Ketheric as being a Paladin, not a full Cleric. So regardless of how strong (or weak) his faith is, he still wouldn't be able to cast spells of that level.

Still, it was funny when he said no other god could grant him back his daughter. My immediate reaction to those words was "literally ANY god could have done that!"