Feelings on the Emperor and thoughts on his character (Spoilers, obviously)

[Lil Larrikin]

How is everyone feeling about the Emperor as a character? Do you find his trustworthy and reliable, or do you distrust him and go against his advice?

Personally, for most of the game I was on his side even after finding out that he was an illithid, but many of the details you discover later on in the game made me reconsider my view,
He was an unwitting pawn of the Elder Brain for the entire game and whilst he does save your life on several occasion, he only does this to further his own end of gaining power over the brain/the crown.
If he consented to releasing Orpheus there would be no need to kill him, but instead of doing so he leaves to join your - and his, apparently - sworn enemy, demonstrating that his opposition to the Elder Brain was really just down to his desire to control it, once this is off the cards he willingly submits to it.
If you read into his backstory, he enthralled one of his closest friends and used her as a puppet to control Baldur's Gate and its people just because he liked being in control of "his" city.
Ansur tried desperately to heal him then decided to give him a merciful death. We are told that Ansur approached Balduran in his sleep and tried to kill him, which resulted in Balduran killing Ansur in self defense. The thing is, I'm not sure we can trust Balduran when he tells us this: it seems unlikely to me that an unconscious ilithid would be able to solo a grown dragon, if you directly compare their stats in game this more or less confirms this leading me to believe that Balduran actually assassinated Ansur. Either way, even if it was in self defense, he killed his best friend, covered it up and tried to dissuade you from learning the truth of the matter.
Ultimately he's manipulative an only concerned about power and I reveled in his death.

[x_equals_speed]

The weird thing for me in this is that if he succeeds in manipulating you - he doesn't actually betray or exploit you at any point.

In my first playthrough I decided to trust him to kill the elder brain, rather than controlling it and somewhat expected betrayal - but when the moment of truth came and he had dominion over the brain he did just kill it.

I really expected it to be revealed that his word meant nothing to him and any positive emotion he showed was just manipulation, but his actions wound up entirely consistent with him being honest and genuinely liking you.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

The weird thing for me in this is that if he succeeds in manipulating you - he doesn't actually betray or exploit you at any point.

In my first playthrough I decided to trust him to kill the elder brain, rather than controlling it and somewhat expected betrayal - but when the moment of truth came and he had dominion over the brain he did just kill it.

I really expected it to be revealed that his word meant nothing to him and any positive emotion he showed was just manipulation, but his actions wound up entirely consistent with him being honest and genuinely liking you.

I'd say the think he is most honest about is that he would prefer not to be a slave to the netherbrain (though death would be even worse outcome). He really doesn't want to die and sees the danger of painting a giant target on his back by trying to start a new empire. Its his own survival and freedom above all.

Beyond that he likes you more if your accommodating and dislikes you if you are difficult.

[Dr.Fumetastic]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

The weird thing for me in this is that if he succeeds in manipulating you - he doesn't actually betray or exploit you at any point.

In my first playthrough I decided to trust him to kill the elder brain, rather than controlling it and somewhat expected betrayal - but when the moment of truth came and he had dominion over the brain he did just kill it.

I really expected it to be revealed that his word meant nothing to him and any positive emotion he showed was just manipulation, but his actions wound up entirely consistent with him being honest and genuinely liking you.

Here's the relevant endings with the Emperor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfpkK4eFQaU

Note that the Emperor is opposed to controling the brain because he doesn't think you/he would stand a chance against the gith. He absolutely doesn't care about you and will turn you into a fully mindcontrolled thrall if you persuade him that you would be capable of fighting off the githyanki.

The only reason he doesn't betray you and takes the power of the brain for himself is because he thinks he is going to die due to the gith. He does in fact not care about you in the slightest.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Dr.Fumetastic:

Note that the Emperor is opposed to controling the brain because he doesn't think you/he would stand a chance against the gith. He absolutely doesn't care about you and will turn you into a fully mindcontrolled thrall if you persuade him that you would be capable of fighting off the githyanki.

The only reason he doesn't betray you and takes the power of the brain for himself is because he thinks he is going to die due to the gith. He does in fact not care about you in the slightest.

Yup, just because he's driven by self interest, doesn't mean he's automatically inclined to betray every ally he has at the first opportunity. With an Intelligence score of 20, and Wisdom score of 18, a rogue Illithid should possess enough forethought and situational awareness to know that such behavior would ultimately be detrimental for them in the long run.

The Emperor is willing to play along, because he believes that killing the brain is the best course of action given the current circumstances. However, if you manage to convince him that there is another way, and that he actually stands a chance of victory, he will jump at the opportunity.

[Lil Larrikin]

Wow seeing the ending where he enthralls you really does put it all into perspective.

[Izlude]

The Emp while not 100% upfront about everything no one in this game is. Wyll lied right to my face about a sending stone in his eyesocket despite it being ya know..HIS EYE THAT I CAN SEE IF I LOOK AT HIS FACE AT ALL. So the Emp being like every other npc in the game isnt that big of a deal to me. It seemed like he was rather lonely and didnt think they could rely on or trust anyone and I found that a bit sad so as both Tav and DURGE I always choose to trust him and show im someone he can trust as well and the dialogues that result from it are kinda heartwarming. I just wish there was more interactions you could have with them.

[Wojtek the Bear]

Originally posted by Big Bottom Frag:

How is everyone feeling about the Emperor as a character? Do you find his trustworthy and reliable, or do you distrust him and go against his advice?

Personally, for most of the game I was on his side even after finding out that he was an illithid, but many of the details you discover later on in the game made me reconsider my view,
He was an unwitting pawn of the Elder Brain for the entire game and whilst he does save your life on several occasion, he only does this to further his own end of gaining power over the brain/the crown.
If he consented to releasing Orpheus there would be no need to kill him, but instead of doing so he leaves to join your - and his, apparently - sworn enemy, demonstrating that his opposition to the Elder Brain was really just down to his desire to control it, once this is off the cards he willingly submits to it.
If you read into his backstory, he enthralled one of his closest friends and used her as a puppet to control Baldur's Gate and its people just because he liked being in control of "his" city.
Ansur tried desperately to heal him then decided to give him a merciful death. We are told that Ansur approached Balduran in his sleep and tried to kill him, which resulted in Balduran killing Ansur in self defense. The thing is, I'm not sure we can trust Balduran when he tells us this: it seems unlikely to me that an unconscious ilithid would be able to solo a grown dragon, if you directly compare their stats in game this more or less confirms this leading me to believe that Balduran actually assassinated Ansur. Either way, even if it was in self defense, he killed his best friend, covered it up and tried to dissuade you from learning the truth of the matter.
Ultimately he's manipulative an only concerned about power and I reveled in his death.

Some excellent takes here. I decided in my second playthrough that I wouldn't follow The Emperor so blindly. His attitude when being questioned is terrible. So I'm going to free Orpheus.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

The Emp while not 100% upfront about everything no one in this game is. Wyll lied right to my face about a sending stone in his eyesocket despite it being ya know..HIS EYE THAT I CAN SEE IF I LOOK AT HIS FACE AT ALL. So the Emp being like every other npc in the game isnt that big of a deal to me. It seemed like he was rather lonely and didnt think they could rely on or trust anyone and I found that a bit sad so as both Tav and DURGE I always choose to trust him and show im someone he can trust as well and the dialogues that result from it are kinda heartwarming. I just wish there was more interactions you could have with them.

He's NOT lonely, because he has no emotions and no soul. The Emperor is manipulating you from the instant you meet each other. He will say anything he thinks you want to hear, in order to get you to follow along with his schemes.

If you constantly refuse to take him at his word and treat him like a potential threat, then he will drop the act and show you the truth. His relationship with Stelmain was not one of mutual respect or benefit, he was mind controlling her like a puppet the entire time. As for his dragon lover, they seemed awfully convinced that the emperor betrayed him in the end when he tried everything he could think of to help save him from becoming a monster.

[Sir Seanicus, Esq.]

Omeluum is the only good one.

[Zu]

I already never trusted him, cuz squid, but especially so after he literally told me to my face that all the cutesy backstory he gave me was a lie, stalemane was his mindslave, he intends to do the same to me and all of this is just his big plot to get his reign over the city back.
Kinda took the last hope for trust away, that.... but at least he was honest for once!

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Sir Seanicus, Esq.:

Omeluum is the only good one.

Debatable. Try collecting the Githyanki egg and you'll see that their organization is not exactly the most 'humane' when it comes to conducting their research.

But then, what can you expect from a society composed largely of Underdark races?

[Myrmicus]

One thing the game doesn't represent well, is the fact that Illithids are NOT "people that got transformed by the ceromorphosis", they are born from the tadpole that infests the brain and uses the hosts body as initial nourrishment. The Emperor is NOT the person that he was born from and he only retains some of his hosts memories because this host had a particularly strong will (normally, an Illithid doesn't even retain his hosts memory). And while host memory can influence the newborn Illithid morality, they still two different entities.

Furthermore, Illithid do not have souls, which is a kind of crucial to be a good person. Illithid do have emotions, but they are almost always turned toward the domination of others... The Emperor does demonstrate this, as he appears somewhat emotional, if a bit too pragmatic, around you, but the more you appear interested in cold logic, the more he approves and reveal that he only appears emotional to manipulate you. If you reject him at every turn, he flat out reveals that you are a tool to him and that he will turn you into a thrall the moment he doesn't need you...

So... yeah.

[The1Kobra]

The Emperor is definitely a very skilled manipulator. What he tells you is usually just enough of a reveal to get you to trust him and follow along his designs. Now of course, those designs are still often in your rational self interest, he is protecting you from the Netherbrain, and his actions leave it ambiguous how much feeling he really has in him.
It does also beg the question of, even if he is evil, if he does still have any degree of good in him, or if he's purely out for his own interests.

Withers (who is generally reliable) states that Illithids don't have souls. But also supports him when he joins your party for the endgame. (Though that might be technical truths in that the Emperor does plan to kill the Netherbrain, and Withers is LN, not LG, and doesn't object to helping evil PCs too).

There's also what happens if Karlach becomes an Illithid. She seems to mostly be herself but there are parts of her that seem quite off. She doesn't quite seem like herself at the end, does she?

And there's also what happens if the PC becomes an Illithid. It's hinted that eventually even if you do have heroic aspirations that you'll succumb to the nature of an illithid eventually. This point actually makes me think about the Emperor. Maybe the Emperor DOES still have some figments of his old personality left, but he's losing, or possibly lost already, most of it, and it shows more and more, even if he can to some extent resist his nature, enough to paint an illusion of being a heroic illithid. Or maybe he is fighting his own fight on the inside, but distrusting him breaks what little control he has over himself. Though it's just as likely he's just faking it and is just using that to manipulate the PC. The doubt and uncertainty makes it very easy to manipulate someone, after all.

Also, for a bit of fun realms lore, the Knights of the Shield are more than a mercantile organization, they're actually a Gargauthian (AKA Lawful Evil) organization of devil dealers and information brokers. Too bad you can't make a history check to fact check the Emperor when he tells you that tidbit. It does make him seem even more suspect.

But there is also Omeluum, who for all of your interactions with him, is nothing but a benevolent Illithid, definitely not evil. Or maybe you don't see enough of him to see through the cracks...

All in all, an interesting character, certainly hard to place the Emperor, and I think that's part of the point. Not every character is easy to assess.
Though part of me wonders what the full vision was intended without the cut content. Oh well.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

He's NOT lonely, because he has no emotions and no soul. The Emperor is manipulating you from the instant you meet each other. He will say anything he thinks you want to hear, in order to get you to follow along with his schemes.

If you constantly refuse to take him at his word and treat him like a potential threat, then he will drop the act and show you the truth. His relationship with Stelmain was not one of mutual respect or benefit, he was mind controlling her like a puppet the entire time. As for his dragon lover, they seemed awfully convinced that the emperor betrayed him in the end when he tried everything he could think of to help save him from becoming a monster.

The Emperor had to have emotions by the very fact he had a love interest that developed during his time as an Illithid and obviously feels that connection with the player. As for no soul it seems that's the proven consensus by gods or god like beings.

So not saying your take is necessarily wrong, I'm just saying that the Emporer may be more complex than painting it as an emotionless/souless husk. The emperor also purposefully broke free of the Elder brain.

Does one need a soul to be 'good' by human standards? People with a soul can be evil or good so why would not having a soul make a thing evil by default?

[Dr.Fumetastic]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

The Emperor had to have emotions by the very fact he had a love interest that developed during his time as an Illithid and obviously feels that connection with the player. As for no soul it seems that's the proven consensus by gods or god like beings.

That's assuming his love interest is genuine. It may not be.

Originally posted by Vixzian:

So not saying your take is necessarily wrong, I'm just saying that the Emporer may be more complex than painting it as an emotionless/souless husk. The emperor also purposefully broke free of the Elder brain.

He broke free recently because the Elder Brain allowed it.