finished on tactician - observations

[VladK02]

1. Double-handed fighter - buffed, hasted and elixired - is OP. Misty Step and ~10 attacks, 50-70 damage each. Brain boss fight - over in 4-5 turns. 2 turns to kill dragon and friends, 2 turns to drop the brain.

2. Rogue with 2 hand-crossbows carries the game, and is second-best source of damage after fighter. Very mobile, thief, invisible, ranged damage - must have.

3. Cleric (and healing) is not needed at all. Spell list is underpowered garbage. For healing you go to potions, everything else like curse removal is niche, needed like 2-3 times in the game, and is from scrolls. There arent that many undead to justify keeping a cleric around. Niche class for like 2-3 fights you need the radiant damage.

4, Mage/Sorc/warlock/druid - trash. You only really need Haste, and Globe of Invulnerability. Yes spells offer variety and utility, but everything a spell does, is simply outclassed by 200-300 damage a rogue or a fighter can put out per turn. With misty step.

5. Monk - also nearly OP, especially by end game, and especially Astarion Ascended, for that 1-10 extra damage. Competes with rogue for DPS. But also competes for unique gear.

6. Sleight of Hand - makes money meaningless. Makes potions of heal and scrolls of haste infinite.

7. Alchemy. Poisons. Elixirs. - meh. You only need potions of haste, some niche poisons early game, and elixirs. generally, buying/stealing this stuff is better and faster then picking up every piece of grass.

8. Illithid abilities. Only 1 is very cool - black hole. makes fights trivial. Collect whole screen of mobs into one spot, and cleave/AoE them. Brilliant ability. Everything else - not needed gimmick. 2nd ability thats marginally useful is perilous stakes - double damage to boss. Decent for Act 2 before bosses start to rock uber-high saves.

9. Sword of giantslaying. So utterly bonkers overpowered its not even funny. Fighter is great by itself. Fighter with this thing - unbeatable.

10. Special arrows - you only need 3 kinds - teleportation, dragon-slaying, and multi-shot. Dont pick up anything else.

11. Environmental effects, barrels, surfaces, stakcing crates, exploding alcohols - all gimmicks only for Act 1. After act 1, discard all your bombs, barrels etc, they become worthless.

12. Clerics level 6 spell Feast - conjures you a crate of food so your long rests are free. For those noobs who complain they ran out of camp supplies (how?!)

13. Githyanki gear. Underpowered. My inner Nameless One is disappointed.

14. mandatory feats. Alert, War caster, dual wield. Yes even on fighters. To maintain your self-buffs, to go first in any combat, and an off-hand attack (or 3) is better then a shield.

15. Abilities - you dont need 20. You are perfectly fine with 14-16 in your primary stat. Fighters get elixir of 27 Str for boss fights, so they can even keep it at 14, rogue gets +2 from mirror, +2 from somewhere else, +1 or 2 from hag, plus some gear.... So dex is also at like 22 just from gameplay. Point being, spread stats around, dont pump just one. You really need wisdom though. There are a LOT of perception checks, bunch of widom rolls.

16. Summons. Gimmick. familiars, We, Boo, the named quasit - meh. You need them for harder boss fights, like maybe 2-3 times in the game, and just to off-tank really.

Overall. Tactician too easy. Final fights are incredibly tedious, because everything is underpowered compared to your party.

They need to give +2 level adjustment to mobs across the board. And maybe increase their HP by 50%.

[CY13ERPUNK]

OP should have used the tactician plus mod on the nexus

[IdealPoint]

I agree that class balance is not very good at end game, mostly due to stacking the number of attacks and power of certain elixirs in the game. I think the best way to approach fixing the situation would be:
1. Haste potions need to be much rarer. Maybe you should be able to get 2-3 per game.
2. Extra attack doesn't stack with extra actions. You only ever get one extra attack per round, or two for a level 11 fighter. Haste would give you one extra attack action per round.
3. Haste spell now lasts for four rounds.
4. Elixir of hill giant strength now sets your strength to 19 for 5 turns.
5. Elixir of cloud giant strength now sets your strength to 22 for 5 turns.
You can use a new elixir after the hill giant and cloud giant strength potions wear off as a bonus action.

Massively reduce the number of high level scrolls you can get. There are too many scrolls and not enough hard encounters, which severely reduces Wizard's value.
Hypnotic pattern now lasts for four turns. Banish now lasts for four turns. Greater invisibility's saves don't increase every time a check is made-make it increase every turn instead. Jump allows too much mobility when multiplied by certain effects, so giving a fighter flight is almost meaningless.
Remove gloves of the automaton.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

guard65 a écrit :

And now you know Tactician is nothing but 30% HP boost to enemies. Maybe a lame tweak here and there but nothing big. You can still practically one shot most enemies when it should take two critical or four normal hits minimum.

And OP wants another 50% increase.

The problem isn't stat bloat - enemies are already buffed and the game 'cheats' on Tactician.

Harder difficulties need smarter enemies (better AI) and different enemies (redesign encounters with new monster roster), two things Lariat will never do.

Stat/hp inflation will only force combat to take a little longer and possibly make you use more exploits/cheese, that is all.

[Damage Case]

BeautifulFlowerField a écrit :

Damage Case a écrit :

So, you didn't even get to fight Orin, Gordash and Esur? ok...I stand my case

No, but if I find them to be hard I'll let you know! I'm really sorry for the crimes I've committed. It's literally insane of me to say that I find the game to be too easy when I only utterly steamrolled 80% of the entire game so far. Probably I won't be able to beat Gortash without looking up a bunch of guides the rest of the encounters must be 1000000x harder than Sarevok and Lorrokhan. I'll be keeping in mind how superior you are to me personally when I get there.

-BG 3 was very easy for me!

-Oh, did you finish it?

-No...'cause too easy for a True Gamer(tm) like me!

-Oh, I see...And what are you playing now?

-Pokemon!

[Revan619]

Two handed fighters actually have fairly low DPS compared to min-max characters and are squishy compared to others.

Rogues have practically no DPS and are just skill check tools.

Cleric has some of the best CC in the game and when swapped to life has outstanding healing.

Mage/Sorc/Warlock can each cast five spells a turn doing 600+ per spell, with the right setup you can be doing 2k damage a turn making all fights easy with no setup.

Monk is mediocre compared to casters.

Barbarian cross classes, bard cross classess, Ranger cross classes are where you get some crazy stuff which isnt even mentioned which tells me he didnt even need to craft some min-maxing.

Illithid abilities are broken and make characters more than OP.

All the feats mentioned are genuinely wasted when you can build classes that arnt reliant on it or use Elixer's for +5 initiative.

Honestly all OP has informed me is that the game is too easy because people with poor understanding of game mechanics still have an easy time. I am pretty sure if they did buff tactician he is the sort that would be the first to complain fighter and paladin cant solo it anymore.

[sabresc]

x_equals_speed a écrit :

How're you getting 10 attacks out of a 2 handed fighter? They'd have 3 natively and another 3 from haste, so you're getting at least 4 out of your bonus action somehow? Or is this on the assumption you can action surge every round?

I meant first turn, sorry. Then 7 attacks, still a plenty.

What do you mean that clerics are useless? Most probably 'cause you have not any idea about how to play them

ATM, I am level 9, Cleric is heavily underpowered except fights when there are huge army of undeads and you can Turn them. Other than that, I keep Shadowheart only for Bless and Guidance, really. Guiding Bolt is okay too, I guess. I am thinking about multi-classing or otherwise "add" Bless and Guidance to another character and drop Shadowheart altogether. But then, as I said, I am discouraged to min-max becasue the game is easy anyway. As OP said, healing is mediocre, you can spend some potions to do it, or really, just power through opponents in first turn, if your fighters go before their, then you don't need healing cause everyone is dead.

You can get even more than ten.

3 from base action
3 from action surge
3 from bloodlust proc
3 from haste/speed
1 from GWM proc/mind sanctuary

Oh God, that's true. There's Bloodlust potion too. I don't even use it, still game is easy.

I forged adamantine scale armor + shield + boots of striding + warcaster feat + spirit guardians - makes it so Shadowheart can dominate almost any encounter

How does Shadowheart dominate an encounter for you? For me her dmg output is so low that it is laughable. I thought about speccing her into War Domain Cleric for more attacks, though. Then she would be more useful. Then again, game would become easier :D.

@Damage Case, I don't understand why you are being so defensive. I didn't finish the game. I spent like 70hrs in it, poking into every hole. The game is incredible easy. It's not an isolated opinion. 95% fights are mindless after first turn.

Then you say "did you fight the big bosses?". If the game suddenly switches from "mindless" to "unbeatable", that's not really good either. But even so, if the game is not challenging (or rather -- combat is boring) for 70hrs, and then is challenging only for some final fights, is it a good design, really? So how does not finishing the game even in this discussion? How does it matter? I spent 70hrs in the game, slowly finishing Act 2, not because it is difficult but because I try to solve everything on my own and don't use online tutorials. Does it make me a cheater, when I say the combat is easy? Because I don't have an achievement?

I wonder, again, what really makes you so defensive of the game? Is it because you struggle on tactician and think others are cheaters? Or you love the series too much and can't accept some flaws?

17: play for fun because it's a video game, do whatever you want.

Sorry but when you say that magic is useless, are you aware it's okay to use some weapons or build because...it's fun?

You miss the point. The point is not that you can min-max and the game is easy then. I don't min-max, I don't optimize my party, I go through my gear rarely. The game is still easy. You'd need to impose self-restriction to make it more difficult. Probably if I change La'ezel to Helsin and go Sorc/Wiz/Cleric/Druid it would be difficult. But the point shouldn't be to make your party weak on purpose.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

Damage Case a écrit :

BeautifulFlowerField a écrit :

No, but if I find them to be hard I'll let you know! I'm really sorry for the crimes I've committed. It's literally insane of me to say that I find the game to be too easy when I only utterly steamrolled 80% of the entire game so far. Probably I won't be able to beat Gortash without looking up a bunch of guides the rest of the encounters must be 1000000x harder than Sarevok and Lorrokhan. I'll be keeping in mind how superior you are to me personally when I get there.

-BG 3 was very easy for me!

-Oh, did you finish it?

-No...'cause too easy for a True Gamer(tm) like me!

-Oh, I see...And what are you playing now?

-Pokemon!

Baldurs Gate 3 is the only game I'm playing now, and I'm almost finished with it. In my experience, it's one of the easiest if not the easiest turn based RPG I've ever played as far as combat difficulty. I never said I wasn't going to finish the game and I never said I'm a "true gamer" or put myself above other gamers. Can you explain why you're so mad at me? Your life is going to be really difficult if you don't take care of your emotional problems.

[Zackerie]

lmao there is enemies that only die to radiant damage, and crusader's mantle exists on cleric, yet you say they aren't needed at all. methinks you built it wrong, because yeah, healing isn't needed. ain't nothing wrong with spirit guardians, a planar ally, aid, and hero's feast.

[bunkerking]

Well my game on tactician is already too easy and I have vanilla Shadowheart, vanilla Lae-zel, reclassed-to-ranger Astarion, and a my custom female druid. If I had any of these OP builds or OP parties with no cleric, It would make the battle tactics unappealing and uninteresting. All RPG can have game-breaking builds. But it doesn’t mean they would be the most enjoyable to play. At least not in your first playthrough and if you enjoy divising tactics, in a zero tolerance environment — where there is no room for error.

[bunkerking]

zackerie a écrit :

lmao there is enemies that only die to radiant damage, and crusader's mantle exists on cleric, yet you say they aren't needed at all. methinks you built it wrong, because yeah, healing isn't needed. ain't nothing wrong with spirit guardians, a planar ally, aid, and hero's feast.

Exactly. Shadowheart rocks. And she does become OP, IMO if you play her support role correctly, blessings, spirit guardians, heals, cantrips spam, etc, plus she’s easily the hottest female character in the game.

[Damage Case]

BeautifulFlowerField a écrit :

Damage Case a écrit :

-BG 3 was very easy for me!

-Oh, did you finish it?

-No...'cause too easy for a True Gamer(tm) like me!

-Oh, I see...And what are you playing now?

-Pokemon!

Baldurs Gate 3 is the only game I'm playing now, and I'm almost finished with it. In my experience, it's one of the easiest if not the easiest turn based RPG I've ever played as far as combat difficulty. I never said I wasn't going to finish the game and I never said I'm a "true gamer" or put myself above other gamers. Can you explain why you're so mad at me? Your life is going to be really difficult if you don't take care of your emotional problems.

My emotional problems? Are you serious? Anyway, I'll just put a stop here. Enjoy your hardcore Pokemon and leave us, modest players, in our balanced difficulty. We can't all be geniouses of tactics

[BeautifulFlowerField]

Damage Case a écrit :

BeautifulFlowerField a écrit :

Baldurs Gate 3 is the only game I'm playing now, and I'm almost finished with it. In my experience, it's one of the easiest if not the easiest turn based RPG I've ever played as far as combat difficulty. I never said I wasn't going to finish the game and I never said I'm a "true gamer" or put myself above other gamers. Can you explain why you're so mad at me? Your life is going to be really difficult if you don't take care of your emotional problems.

My emotional problems? Are you serious? Anyway, I'll just put a stop here. Enjoy your hardcore Pokemon and leave us, modest players, in our balanced difficulty. We can't all be geniouses of tactics

Yeah, I'm serious. I never referred myself in any way that you're implying i did so what the ♥♥♥♥ is your problem, why did you attack me over and over and over again when lots of other people are also saying the game is too easy on tactician, why aren't you attacking them and accusing them of being liars or braggarts too? you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane.

[Damage Case]

BeautifulFlowerField a écrit :

Damage Case a écrit :

My emotional problems? Are you serious? Anyway, I'll just put a stop here. Enjoy your hardcore Pokemon and leave us, modest players, in our balanced difficulty. We can't all be geniouses of tactics

Yeah, I'm serious. I never referred myself in any way that you're implying i did so what the ♥♥♥♥ is your problem, why did you attack me over and over and over again when lots of other people are also saying the game is too easy on tactician, why aren't you attacking them and accusing them of being liars or braggarts too? you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane.

man, take it easy. Nothing personal. And, to be honest, I attack every Starfield troll that I see in this forum. (and they are a-plenty trying to cope with the failure of that game). But, you are in the middle of no-where, expressing opinions for a game that only a minority of players has beaten. So? This is not my problem 'cause I beat the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game. It was a hell of a thing to pull out in certain fights! And, here you come, with all the other "expert" tacticians that have NOT finished the game. As said: tacticians like you and your kind can go out and beat Pokemon. Not this

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

BG3 isn't fun on Tactician.

Having to slog through a few more hp and +2 AC/saves isn't any more difficult, it just takes longer. Enemies aren't any smarter and encounters aren't any different.

Besides, you can already dish out so much damage that all it really does is soak a tiny bit of the overkill you were already doing.

What's the point?

[KasparL]

Mirado a écrit :

It depends on your approach to the game. If you approach it from purely a power gaming, min / max standpoint, then it isn't difficult to find ways to break the game.

If you go into it with a more narrative and character driven approach and you pick spells /skills/ abilities based on what would fit the character you envisioned, you will probably have a more balanced experience.

so true, not everyone min/max everything at the game
its an rpg afterall, there some sort of roleplaying and make belief going on