BEWARE - Save the Tieflings and Wulbren before enter Shadowfen!!!!

[Praesi]

I just noticed that both Quests are failed because i entered Shadowfen before the Moonrise Towers.
All the time the Game tells me to do sidequests before mainquests and now this companion sidequest BS ruined to quests for me. Absolutly ridiculous.
DONT KILL BALTHASAR, better yet, dont even enter the Dungeon after the Devil told you to kill his enemy. Go to Moonrise Towers first.

This ship has saled for me. I am the type of player who turn everry stone before advancing and thats how i get rewarded. I will not redo many hours to avoid this.

The Game is very good, but this is a design error of epic scale.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

JAHEIRA TELLS YOU TO INFILTRATE MOONRISE SO YOU CAN FIND OUT THE SECRET TO KETHERIC'S IMMORTALITY, SO THEY CAN DISABLE IT!

Yeah, that's the main quest. Following the main quest is typically how you miss out on side content.

[gnomad]

Originally posted by gnomad:

so is this true for entering the gauntlet in general or just shadowfell towards the end?

cause im just about to enter shadowfell and release nightsong and sure enough theres a warning. but do i need to reload all the way to the point before i enter the gauntlet in order ot be able to save thieflings or is entering shadowfell the only point of no return?

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by gnomad:

cause im just about to enter shadowfell and release nightsong and sure enough theres a warning. but do i need to reload all the way to the point before i enter the gauntlet in order ot be able to save thieflings or is entering shadowfell the only point of no return?

It's just the shadowfell, but you do miss out on balthazar's narrative stuff if you don't get told to assist him beforehand.

[SinAscendant]

Originally posted by gnomad:

Originally posted by gnomad:

so is this true for entering the gauntlet in general or just shadowfell towards the end?

cause im just about to enter shadowfell and release nightsong and sure enough theres a warning. but do i need to reload all the way to the point before i enter the gauntlet in order ot be able to save thieflings or is entering shadowfell the only point of no return?

You're fine right now. As long as you don't click yes on that prompt, nothing else progresses.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

JAHEIRA TELLS YOU TO INFILTRATE MOONRISE SO YOU CAN FIND OUT THE SECRET TO KETHERIC'S IMMORTALITY, SO THEY CAN DISABLE IT!

Yeah, that's the main quest. Following the main quest is typically how you miss out on side content.

Okay, you people seem to not be understanding this, so I'll spell it out for you.

Being given the task of infiltrating the cult and investigating the source of Ketheric's invulnerability would logically imply that the battle with him is something you are expected to work your way up to.

It is not an indication of "well, I guess I'll just ask him outright what his secret is. Then once he's metaphorically spilled his guts, I'll literally spill his guts!"

Also, joining the cult at Moonrise is the alternate path you can take, if you decided to side with Minthara and wipe out the grove.

------------------------

Nothing in the game indicated that heading straight into Moonrise was going to cut you off from doing your little completionist runs. That was entirely the fault of you guys jumping to conclusions.

[gnomad]

luckily i have a save in the temple just before meeting balthazar, ill try reloading that and heading straight for the towers

thanks for a quick reply

btw, true enough, only entering shadowfell triggers the point of no return, just tested it now. both quests for tieflings and the gnome are still active before the final descent

[Shadow♥]

the game warns you not to go in as it will initiate the ending of act 2. when i saw that i just left and went and did the other things first. that's why they put warning. so you do not ruin other side quests.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Okay, you people seem to not be understanding this, so I'll spell it out for you.

Being given the task of infiltrating the cult and investigating the source of Ketheric's invulnerability would logically imply that the battle with him is something you are expected to work your way up to.

We all understand. Your point is just dumb. The main quest is typically what advances the world state. If you want to do all of the game's side content, you want to avoid advancing the world state. Therefor, you want to avoid the main quest. That shadowheart's companion quest is ALSO the main quest is not advertised or intuitive.

It's not complicated. You're the one failing to understand.

[Grobut]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

We all understand. Your point is just dumb. The main quest is typically what advances the world state. If you want to do all of the game's side content, you want to avoid advancing the world state. Therefor, you want to avoid the main quest. That shadowheart's companion quest is ALSO the main quest is not advertised or intuitive.

It's not complicated. You're the one failing to understand.

Damn straight. Have my golden unicorn you wonderful bastard.

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Okay, you people seem to not be understanding this, so I'll spell it out for you.

Being given the task of infiltrating the cult and investigating the source of Ketheric's invulnerability would logically imply that the battle with him is something you are expected to work your way up to.

We all understand. Your point is just dumb. The main quest is typically what advances the world state. If you want to do all of the game's side content, you want to avoid advancing the world state. Therefor, you want to avoid the main quest. That shadowheart's companion quest is ALSO the main quest is not advertised or intuitive.

It's not complicated. You're the one failing to understand.

Plus, the game journal advertises that helping Balthazar could be one method of getting in to the Moonrise Towers, making it seem like logically we should do this before the towers themselves.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

We all understand. Your point is just dumb. The main quest is typically what advances the world state. If you want to do all of the game's side content, you want to avoid advancing the world state. Therefor, you want to avoid the main quest. That shadowheart's companion quest is ALSO the main quest is not advertised or intuitive.

It's not complicated. You're the one failing to understand.

And once again, the game pops up a giant warning that tells you if you proceed any further, it will advance the story. So any arguments made about not heading to Moonrise because you don't want to advance the story immediately falls apart.

The game told you what was going to happen, and you chose to ignore it and proceed further anyways. That's not poor game design, that's you failing to pay attention to what the DM is telling you.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

[
And once again, the game pops up a giant warning that tells you if you proceed any further, it will advance the story. So any arguments made about not heading to Moonrise because you don't want to advance the story immediately falls apart.

The game told you what was going to happen, and you chose to ignore it and proceed further anyways. That's not poor game design, that's you failing to pay attention to what the DM is telling you.

No, it does *not* say that it will advance the story. It says that some quests will become unavailable. Given that it's her companion quest, this can be easily interpreted as being relative to Shadowheart.

And to be clear, this didn't happen to me. I just have ability to see a world outside of myself and understand how others would make this mistake.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

No, it does *not* say that it will advance the story. It says that some quests will become unavailable. Given that it's her companion quest, this can be easily interpreted as being relative to Shadowheart.

And to be clear, this didn't happen to me. I just have ability to see a world outside of myself and understand how others would make this mistake.

I have played through this game 3 times by now, I'm fairly certain it states going forward will advance the story. It also tells you that some side quests will become unavailable from this point forward.

But even on the chance that I may have misremembered something, ask yourself if Ketheric isn't going to realize his magical immortality was suddenly cut off, and he puts the tower on high alert?

Seriously, I understand completionists wanting to check out everything first. But if the DM goes out of their way to ask "are you sure you wanna do this?" that's the point where you stop and reassess your course of action.

The game gave you a chance to turn back. You ignored that chance, so it's your fault you screwed up and missed the quests.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

But even on the chance that I may have misremembered something, ask yourself if Ketheric isn't going to realize his magical immortality was suddenly cut off, and he puts the tower on high alert?

The whole premise of this conversation is that you *don't know* that this is the main quest. You *don't know* that you are going to cut off Ketheric's immortality because you *think* you are doing Shadowheart's companion quest.

That you've yet to grasp this is, frankly, astounding.

[partly sane]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by partly sane:

Yeah. Hit that on my initial playthrough. Didn't think I needed to sneak about the tower a bit before I launched my final assault, after I saved Isobel at the Inn it seemed I had a bit of time to do a couple things, but if you do it in the wrong order you get screwed.

Once again, Jaheira flat out tells you that Ketheric is immortal. Why would the game encourage you to go fight somebody who can't be killed?

Jaheira and the Harpers want you to use your tadpole to infiltrate Moonrise Towers and discover the secret to Ketheric's immortality so that they can disable it.

They are not telling you to arm yourself up and go challenge the BBEG to a death match, because that's a fight you have no hope of winning at this time.

That's my point. Jaheira flat out tells you, he can't be killed, a couple of times actually, if you count when you first met her. And that you have to go and investigate Moonrise. So "I haven't done any of that, I should have the time to finish of these things, for Halsin, oh and Darling Sharling needs to get her head straight, and then the harpers want me to ambush some guy and we can carry on right?

No. See if you go and do Shadowhearts, it advances the plot on you, and that whole section of main plot that was over there waiting for you? Yeah it goes away, but until you actually get into the Shadowfell and Learn the nightsong is a person, and she goes on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rampage Although I had suspected that, it was a person, it was the second part that took me a bit by surprise. That and the whole...."so what about that Ambush that was part of the main storyline?"

Oh and that warning. Dude, I still had the chick with the dead husband's quest active, because I decided to wing her wand off into the swamp, and have been back and forth through the waypoints a few times. There was absolutely no reason to believe it meant anything other than I was leaving the general environs and plane of existence. Not that all heaven, was going to break loose and go ass kicking. And that's what would end up breaking the plot advancement that I had counted on