No Dispel Magic?

[mutantspicy]

Anyone know why dispel magic wasn't included? Seems like on the surface would easy to implement, but must have cause some game breaking issue.

[Recjawjind]

There are very few circumstances where I thought "dispel magic would work great here".

[mutantspicy]

what a weird response, just because you don't know when to use it, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of uses for it. Magical traps for one thing, removing enemy buffs is the biggest use. Anyway Dispel is a top spell in the game, strange that it was not added, I was wondering if the developers ever cited any reasons for it.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

There are very few circumstances where I thought "dispel magic would work great here".

Strippimg magical buffs from enemies?

Duh.

[kdodds]

Yep, been looking for it, not in the game. How do you create a D&D game and not include Dispel Magic? I mean, yeah, there are other solutions, but when your first thought is "Dispel Magic", it's annoying that it's not present.

[Zackerie]

it would be nice to have, it is a shame we don't.

[Estevan Valladares]

Technically you cant dispell magic, it is like saying you can "unhear something" or "unsee something". You can dispell a curse, remove a condition, that is magically applied. But when someone, like, firebolt you and you get a condition of burning, you can remove the condition, but the "magic" of the firebolt was cast, and happened.
To "dispell" magic you would need to "shove the fireball back into the caster" so to speak.
Same way the magic is what "bestow the curse", therefore you dispell the curse, not the "magic" that applied it.
And there are plenty of spells and potions to dispell curses and remove conditions.

The "dispel magic" (pag 234 handbook) has this name, but it does what you accomplish using other abjurations in the game.

But it seems if someone remove the word "breathe" from the language, some people will then suffocate to death. lol

[Azure Fang]

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Technically you cant dispell magic, it is like saying you can "unhear something" or "unsee something". You can dispell a curse, remove a condition, that is magically applied. But when someone, like, firebolt you and you get a condition of burning, you can remove the condition, but the "magic" of the firebolt was cast, and happened.
To "dispell" magic you would need to "shove the fireball back into the caster" so to speak.
Same way the magic is what "bestow the curse", therefore you dispell the curse, not the "magic" that applied it.
And there are plenty of spells and potions to dispell curses and remove conditions.

Have you never played D&D? In most editions there is specifically a spell called "Dispel Magic". It is used to dispel ongoing spell effects (like Bless/Bane, Polymorph, etc.), suppress permanent effects (magic traps, magic items, permanent spells), and as a makeshift counterspell (such as a reaction to Fireball, interfering with the spell before it completes and the fireball actually manifests).

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by mutantspicy:

what a weird response, just because you don't know when to use it, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of uses for it. Magical traps for one thing, removing enemy buffs is the biggest use. Anyway Dispel is a top spell in the game, strange that it was not added, I was wondering if the developers ever cited any reasons for it.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

There are very few circumstances where I thought "dispel magic would work great here".

Strippimg magical buffs from enemies?

Duh.

In MANY of these cases (when it comes to enemy buffs) a Silence spell works well enough... also; keep in mind most buffs are based on concentration meaning they have a source... Critical question: why is that source still standing if buffs are a problem for you ? Not trying to be an elitist or offensive but if any type of buff is going just boop the source of that buff on the snoot.... and boop it hard... like REALLY REALLY hard :)

[Estevan Valladares]

Originally posted by Azure Fang:

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Technically you cant dispell magic, it is like saying you can "unhear something" or "unsee something". You can dispell a curse, remove a condition, that is magically applied. But when someone, like, firebolt you and you get a condition of burning, you can remove the condition, but the "magic" of the firebolt was cast, and happened.
To "dispell" magic you would need to "shove the fireball back into the caster" so to speak.
Same way the magic is what "bestow the curse", therefore you dispell the curse, not the "magic" that applied it.
And there are plenty of spells and potions to dispell curses and remove conditions.

Have you never played D&D? In most editions there is specifically a spell called "Dispel Magic". It is used to dispel ongoing spell effects (like Bless/Bane, Polymorph, etc.), suppress permanent effects (magic traps, magic items, permanent spells), and as a makeshift counterspell (such as a reaction to Fireball, interfering with the spell before it completes and the fireball actually manifests).

I play D&D since it exists, and I know it very well.
I should point out, I guess, that I never said it does not exist, what I said is that you dont dispell the magic that is cast, you can only dispell ONGOING (textually written in the players handbook as I added), and the game DO HAVE that ability by other name.
And that is the same language used to convey other instances in which THE NAME OF SOMETHING does not mean it is the only way to do something.
Again, it seems if someone removes the word breathe from the language, people will suffocate.

[kdodds]

Technically, yes you can. You can Dispel the magic locking a door. That magic is till in effect, and dispelling it removes the effect. Fire that is not magical (i.e. your burning condition as the result of a spell) can't be dispelled because it's not magical fire. However in the instance of the Balefire spell, if it should hit a shield or something of Dispel Magic, that shield could stop it regardless of it otherwise being unstoppable. Dispel doesn't work on enchanted items though, which is further proof that it only works on active magic, not items imbued with magic.

[Azure Fang]

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Originally posted by Azure Fang:

Have you never played D&D? In most editions there is specifically a spell called "Dispel Magic". It is used to dispel ongoing spell effects (like Bless/Bane, Polymorph, etc.), suppress permanent effects (magic traps, magic items, permanent spells), and as a makeshift counterspell (such as a reaction to Fireball, interfering with the spell before it completes and the fireball actually manifests).

I play D&D since it exists, and I know it very well.
I should point out, I guess, that I never said it does not exist, what I said is that you dont dispell the magic that is cast, you can only dispell ONGOING (textually written in the players handbook as I added), and the game DO HAVE that ability by other name.
And that is the same language used to convey other instances in which THE NAME OF SOMETHING does not mean it is the only way to do something.
Again, it seems if someone removes the word breathe from the language, people will suffocate.

And, again, you CAN cast dispel as a spell is being cast. This is part of the counterspelling action introduced in 3E, where you can counterspell with the same spell, an equivalent spell of opposing element (variant rule, subject to DM), or any of the Dispel Magic "line" of spells. This facet is represented in the Counterspell spell available in BG3, but lacks the rest of Dispel Magic's effects.

[Estevan Valladares]

Originally posted by Azure Fang:

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

I play D&D since it exists, and I know it very well.
I should point out, I guess, that I never said it does not exist, what I said is that you dont dispell the magic that is cast, you can only dispell ONGOING (textually written in the players handbook as I added), and the game DO HAVE that ability by other name.
And that is the same language used to convey other instances in which THE NAME OF SOMETHING does not mean it is the only way to do something.
Again, it seems if someone removes the word breathe from the language, people will suffocate.

And, again, you CAN cast dispel as a spell is being cast. This is part of the counterspelling action introduced in 3E, where you can counterspell with the same spell, an equivalent spell of opposing element (variant rule, subject to DM), or any of the Dispel Magic "line" of spells. This facet is represented in the Counterspell spell available in BG3, but lacks the rest of Dispel Magic's effects.

Again, you are not dispelling the magic in that way, you are "countering it". It wasnt "spelled" (that word has a meaning you know), as it is decribed in the very same playerbook, what you do is having the right to "cast a spell" that goes before the initial caster get theirs, a form of using a reaction when you have a turn based system in which your action should go at the same time but constraints of reality play it. IT is like when you use any other reaction.
Again, understand, I am not dispell magic as a mechanic does not exist, what I said is that "DISPELL" is not the word to use there.
I dont like to cite this example because "northfolk" start other issues for it, but, it is the same as going to China and saying there is no "television" in China because what you call television the chinese more accurately describe as "ELECTRIC VISION" because you are not seeing something that is far from you, or seeing something that is not in your presence, what you are seeing is the ELECTRIC ENERGY made manifest as light and sound by an apparatus that reproduce what was (always in the past, real time does not exist in TV, as it is always a non-zero delay, as microsecond scope it may be) happening in the past. So yeah, the device, television for english speaking folk and 电视 (dianshi) for the chinese, exist in both languages, but does not bear the same name because people understand them differently.
Or put simply in northfolk language: "The freaking spell is there, just has other names".

[mutantspicy]

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Originally posted by Azure Fang:

Have you never played D&D? In most editions there is specifically a spell called "Dispel Magic". It is used to dispel ongoing spell effects (like Bless/Bane, Polymorph, etc.), suppress permanent effects (magic traps, magic items, permanent spells), and as a makeshift counterspell (such as a reaction to Fireball, interfering with the spell before it completes and the fireball actually manifests).

I play D&D since it exists, and I know it very well.
I should point out, I guess, that I never said it does not exist, what I said is that you dont dispell the magic that is cast, you can only dispell ONGOING (textually written in the players handbook as I added), and the game DO HAVE that ability by other name.
And that is the same language used to convey other instances in which THE NAME OF SOMETHING does not mean it is the only way to do something.
Again, it seems if someone removes the word breathe from the language, people will suffocate.

I mean if you want to have fun with semantics be my guest. Meanwhile I just wonder why dispel magic one of the oldest spells in the game wasn't included. In 5e they separated dispel magic and counterspell, into two pieces counterspell being the more valuable in my opinion, that doesn't mean dispel doesn't have its uses, and again I'm just asking why it wasn't included.

[mutantspicy]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by mutantspicy:

what a weird response, just because you don't know when to use it, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of uses for it. Magical traps for one thing, removing enemy buffs is the biggest use. Anyway Dispel is a top spell in the game, strange that it was not added, I was wondering if the developers ever cited any reasons for it.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Strippimg magical buffs from enemies?

Duh.

In MANY of these cases (when it comes to enemy buffs) a Silence spell works well enough... also; keep in mind most buffs are based on concentration meaning they have a source... Critical question: why is that source still standing if buffs are a problem for you ? Not trying to be an elitist or offensive but if any type of buff is going just boop the source of that buff on the snoot.... and boop it hard... like REALLY REALLY hard :)

Dispel strips all 3rd level or lower spells currently in effect on the target in one move. Silence prevents casters from casting doesnt't remove effects, Counterspell interupts spell being cast as a reaction, pummeling an enemy caster is the barbarian's job, and if they have war caster doesn't always work.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Technically you cant dispell magic, it is like saying you can "unhear something" or "unsee something". You can dispell a curse, remove a condition, that is magically applied. But when someone, like, firebolt you and you get a condition of burning, you can remove the condition, but the "magic" of the firebolt was cast, and happened.
To "dispell" magic you would need to "shove the fireball back into the caster" so to speak.
Same way the magic is what "bestow the curse", therefore you dispell the curse, not the "magic" that applied it.
And there are plenty of spells and potions to dispell curses and remove conditions.

The "dispel magic" (pag 234 handbook) has this name, but it does what you accomplish using other abjurations in the game.

But it seems if someone remove the word "breathe" from the language, some people will then suffocate to death. lol

You don't know that "dispel magic" means to dispel a magical effect? Do you think that when someone removes a broken tooth, that means they are removing the entire concept of teeth from that person? Or when you get a haircut, do they shave you entirely bald?

I mean... there's pedantic, and then there's nitpicking, and then there's this.