breaking the warlock class

[Hurricane Jordan]

So it goes like this 2 levels warlock 4 levels rogue 6 levels sorcerer

(I know I said rogue but bear with me)

Starter Stats - (Str/8) (Dex/10) (Con/14) (Int/8) (wis/16) (cha/17)

Warlock level 2 - ELDRITCH BLAST + HEX + Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast

Rogue level 4 ( Thief) - cunning actions + Second-Story Work + Fast Hands (Now this is the broken one)

Sorcerer level 6 - Create Sorcery Points + Metamagic: Quickened Spell



Now allow me to explain one eldritch blast/bold with agonizing blast (cha20) dose 6-15dp and at level 11 you shoot 3 bolts = 18-35dp

Quicken spell allows you to cast a spell as a bonus action meaning two Eldritch blasts. (36-70dp)

Now the broken part fast hands give a second bones action meaning you can cast Eldritch blast for a 3rd time (not fully tested in the game so might not work but from what I've read it should)

Meaning you can do 54-105dp in one turn adding hex into that on a boss 1d6x9 (9-54)

So in one turn, you can do around 63-154dp of course at the cost of 6 sorcerer points

let me know if this will work as it's just a hypothetical and I'm relatively new to D&D stuff.

,

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

That's just barely scratching the surface of what you can do.

E.g. Fighter 2/Warlock 2/Draconic (Bronze/Blue) Sorcerer 8 (I don't think a thief 4 level dip is honestly worth it for the bonus action and you can get one from helm of grit or circlet of fire (if you mix in a scorching ray) anyway).

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Potent_Robe
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Spellsparkler or later https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Markoheshkir
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Birthright

Using Haste Potion/Haste from someone else, Hex, Action Surge, Quicken Spell we can cast 4 EBs per turn for a total of 12 rays. Assuming

12 * (1d10 + 12 force + 1d6 necrotic + 11 lightning + 12 force (again) + 1d6 necrotic (again) + 1d4 psychic (psychic overload)) = 600 damage / no crits

To explain what's happening +1 damage from lightning charges registers as a separate damage proc and triggers Agonizing Blast, Potent Robes and Hex a 2nd time (most likely not intended). It also benefits from Draconic Sorc CHA to damage and Markoheshkir's Kereska's proficiency bonus to damage (that works per RAW).

vs a Wet target the damage will go up by 11 * 12 for a total of 732

if you paralyze the target with Hold Monster/Hold Person first and cast from 3m for auto crits

12 * ((1d10 + 1d6 necrotic + 1d6 necrotic (again) + 1d4 psychic (psychic overload)) * 2 (crit)) + 22 lightning (wet) + 12 force (again) + 12 force) = 932 damage

You can push this further by being under 50% hp and using helm of grit for an extra bonus action and 2 quickens for example for 1140 damage.

If the double proc bug is fixed the damage goes down to 414 / 546 / 704 / 855 respectively which is still a lot.

There are some other things you can throw in to do even more damage like Amulet of Elemental Torment and standing on a surface but I'll leave that to you.

Spamming rays of fire is still going to beat this for nova damage though, but the more interesting thing here is the "low resource" mode where you only have Haste and Kereska's favour (since it's until Long Rest)

The damage in this case is 6 * (1d10 + 12 force + 11 lightning + 12 force (again)) = 243 with very little resource usage (a single cast of haste which we can cast ourselves, plus once per rest cast of the blessing), which is still quite respectable. The 2nd proc is bugged though and if fixed would bring us to 171, which is still not bad.

There is also an elixir of blood lust last till long rest gives an additional action on kill every turn, it's fantastic for this kinda stuff lol

[causality]

Overoptimizing cantrip DPR be like.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by causality:

Overoptimizing cantrip DPR be like.

It's fun to break the hame especially for solo runs lol

[Lur Nen Rue]

If you save your Shar buff at act2 you could reach 25 Stat (26 with hair (27 int eating mindflayer)) in cha, wis, int short while before the forced rest at act3, and I think it's possible to level 12 in this period of time. If you really really wanna maximize this lel

[Hurricane Jordan]

Originally posted by Revan619:

Originally posted by Hurricane Jordan:

ok lets maths this
scorching ray dose 1d12 per ray base level 2 spell shots 3 rays plus 1 for every upcast level so 7 rays at level 6
warlock only gets 2 level 6 spell slots
1d12 +5 (Elemental Affinity: Damage)
so it does a min of 6 to a max of 17 per ray = 6-17
6-17 x 7 = 42-119 plus hex 1d6 x 7 = 7-42 meaning 49-161dp
but downside is you can only cast two of those per long rest
I made mine to be a tactical nuke which could kill most bosses in 5 rounds for example

Gale cast haste on me i now can use eldritch blast 4 times per turn
one eldritch blast 18-35dp x 4 = 72-140dp (hex12-72)

72-140 x 5 = 360-700dp

Hex 12-72 x 5 = 60-360dp

meaning in 5 turns I deal 420-1060dp

so I will sit here with my mid damage tactical nuke and you can have a nice day

2d6 per ray, 3 rays at level 2. Each level provides another ray. Each ray gets charisma modifier. At level 7 I can shoot out in two turns two quicken spells, 4 and a 3 then 3 and a 3. 18d6+45 the first turn and 16d6+40 the second turn without having the rely on another companion. 204 average maybe.

If we then take a level 7 warlock into account. You can do 2 eldritch blasts per turn plus charisma which will likely be 18 but lets say you min maxed and did the hair for 20. You do 2d10+10 a round. Another 2d6 if you add in hex. Average 56.

You said you need an entire second companion to haste you? so you can turn that average into 102. Still half the sorc output and lowering the party dps to set it up. That haste would be better on the fighter or barbarian that can do in one turn what you do in two.

My sorc also has 19 AC from draconic resistences, dex, clothing, and bracers. Sure you might be able to get more as ive seen boots and capes that give more. So quite self reliant.

I will still stick to sorcerer. You cant even sorlock because you cant convert warlock spells in this one and hex blade does not exist. You might as well have the sorcerer attack the hexed enemy to vastly out damage your warlock cause that one round 18d6+45 would get another 9d6 and haste the fighter or barbarian to also out damage when attacking the hexed enemy lol.

Quicken spell meta magic would allow two double casts but then you can convert other spells to get more double casts which is what keeps the sorcerer firing two spells a round. Maybe after 5 rounds the warlock might start catching up when you run out of spells and sorcery points but nothing tends to survive that long. Even then once the sorcerer has expended all their resources, the fighter and barbarian will still be out damaging your warlock if they got the haste lmfao

i would say 2 levels in warlock and 10 in sorcerer works better as having hex for scorching ray, especially against a boss would help as its a free 1d6 per ray and i dont think it should affect level 6 spells

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Hurricane Jordan:

Originally posted by Revan619:

2d6 per ray, 3 rays at level 2. Each level provides another ray. Each ray gets charisma modifier. At level 7 I can shoot out in two turns two quicken spells, 4 and a 3 then 3 and a 3. 18d6+45 the first turn and 16d6+40 the second turn without having the rely on another companion. 204 average maybe.

If we then take a level 7 warlock into account. You can do 2 eldritch blasts per turn plus charisma which will likely be 18 but lets say you min maxed and did the hair for 20. You do 2d10+10 a round. Another 2d6 if you add in hex. Average 56.

You said you need an entire second companion to haste you? so you can turn that average into 102. Still half the sorc output and lowering the party dps to set it up. That haste would be better on the fighter or barbarian that can do in one turn what you do in two.

My sorc also has 19 AC from draconic resistences, dex, clothing, and bracers. Sure you might be able to get more as ive seen boots and capes that give more. So quite self reliant.

I will still stick to sorcerer. You cant even sorlock because you cant convert warlock spells in this one and hex blade does not exist. You might as well have the sorcerer attack the hexed enemy to vastly out damage your warlock cause that one round 18d6+45 would get another 9d6 and haste the fighter or barbarian to also out damage when attacking the hexed enemy lol.

Quicken spell meta magic would allow two double casts but then you can convert other spells to get more double casts which is what keeps the sorcerer firing two spells a round. Maybe after 5 rounds the warlock might start catching up when you run out of spells and sorcery points but nothing tends to survive that long. Even then once the sorcerer has expended all their resources, the fighter and barbarian will still be out damaging your warlock if they got the haste lmfao

i would say 2 levels in warlock and 10 in sorcerer works better as having hex for scorching ray, especially against a boss would help as its a free 1d6 per ray and i dont think it should affect level 6 spells

If you just want hex, it's better to stay pure sorc and grab magic initiate warlock feat. More caster levels and faster spell progression. You can even get EB but you'll be missing Agonizing Blast which is kinda what makes it appealing.

These gloves https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helldusk_Gloves also give you a 3 x 3d6 fire rays cantrip to simulate EB, although it's lategame stuff.

[⇧⇨⇩⇩⇩]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Originally posted by Hurricane Jordan:

i would say 2 levels in warlock and 10 in sorcerer works better as having hex for scorching ray, especially against a boss would help as its a free 1d6 per ray and i dont think it should affect level 6 spells

If you just want hex, it's better to stay pure sorc and grab magic initiate warlock feat. More caster levels and faster spell progression. You can even get EB but you'll be missing Agonizing Blast which is kinda what makes it appealing.

These gloves https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helldusk_Gloves also give you a 3 x 3d6 fire rays cantrip to simulate EB, although it's lategame stuff.

Some short rest spell slots to convert into sorcery points is very nice tho.

[Hurricane Jordan]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Originally posted by Hurricane Jordan:

i would say 2 levels in warlock and 10 in sorcerer works better as having hex for scorching ray, especially against a boss would help as its a free 1d6 per ray and i dont think it should affect level 6 spells

If you just want hex, it's better to stay pure sorc and grab magic initiate warlock feat. More caster levels and faster spell progression. You can even get EB but you'll be missing Agonizing Blast which is kinda what makes it appealing.

These gloves https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helldusk_Gloves also give you a 3 x 3d6 fire rays cantrip to simulate EB, although it's lategame stuff.

ya but if you add items you can improve eldrich blast by a lot
do 2 levels of warlock and 10 sorcerers with items like:

potent robe - Adds charisma modifier to cantrips

The Spellsparkler - When the wielder deals damage with a spell or cantrip, they gain 2 Lightning Charges.

So draconic sorcerer with lighting ancestry makes that 2 into 7 lighting damage per bolt
agonising blast adds 5 per bolt
then potent robe adds 5 more per bolt

meaning one bolt of eldrich blast now dose 1d10 +17 x 3 = 3d10 +51 per eldritch blast
then quicken spell allows you to cast that two times meaning 6d10 +102
adding hex on to that in one turn with two attacks you can do 6d10 + 6d6 +102

then there is items like

Birthright - + 2 charisma increasing the modify to +6

Gloves of Belligerent Skies - Thunderous Conversion: When the wearer deals Damage Types Thunder, Damage Types Lightning, or Damage Types Radiant damage, inflict 2 turns of Reverberation upon the target(s).
(and considering you deal 3 instances of lighting damage it gains plus 6 reverberation which deals an addition 1d4 thunder damage)

plus if you can off-hand the Markoheshkir you can cast scorching ray for free

I'm sure there are more items that have yet to be found that also increase help up the dp

plus the gloves only apply to weapon attacks.
Infernal Touch: Your weapon attacks deal an addition 1-6 Fire damage. Your unarmed attacks deal an addition 1-6 Necrotic damage, and can possibly inflict Bleeding.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Hurricane Jordan:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

If you just want hex, it's better to stay pure sorc and grab magic initiate warlock feat. More caster levels and faster spell progression. You can even get EB but you'll be missing Agonizing Blast which is kinda what makes it appealing.

These gloves https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helldusk_Gloves also give you a 3 x 3d6 fire rays cantrip to simulate EB, although it's lategame stuff.

ya but if you add items you can improve eldrich blast by a lot
do 2 levels of warlock and 10 sorcerers with items like:

potent robe - Adds charisma modifier to cantrips

The Spellsparkler - When the wielder deals damage with a spell or cantrip, they gain 2 Lightning Charges.

So draconic sorcerer with lighting ancestry makes that 2 into 7 lighting damage per bolt
agonising blast adds 5 per bolt
then potent robe adds 5 more per bolt

meaning one bolt of eldrich blast now dose 1d10 +17 x 3 = 3d10 +51 per eldritch blast
then quicken spell allows you to cast that two times meaning 6d10 +102
adding hex on to that in one turn with two attacks you can do 6d10 + 6d6 +102

then there is items like

Birthright - + 2 charisma increasing the modify to +6

Gloves of Belligerent Skies - Thunderous Conversion: When the wearer deals Damage Types Thunder, Damage Types Lightning, or Damage Types Radiant damage, inflict 2 turns of Reverberation upon the target(s).
(and considering you deal 3 instances of lighting damage it gains plus 6 reverberation which deals an addition 1d4 thunder damage)

plus if you can off-hand the Markoheshkir you can cast scorching ray for free

I'm sure there are more items that have yet to be found that also increase help up the dp

plus the gloves only apply to weapon attacks.
Infernal Touch: Your weapon attacks deal an addition 1-6 Fire damage. Your unarmed attacks deal an addition 1-6 Necrotic damage, and can possibly inflict Bleeding.

I mean I have all of that listed just a few posts above where I described how to break EB damage.

The point of helldusk gloves for sorc is not the weapon damage they add, it's the cantrip they grant, Rays of Fire. It has 3 rays, same as level 10 Eldritch Blast and deals 3d6 fire per ray.

For Scorching Ray damage, Agonizing Blast is useless since it's not a cantrip. If you want Hex you can grab it with a magic initiate feat, and still have full sorc caster level and slots (and a 2 level warlock dip loses you a feat anyway).

For "low resource" mode Rays of Fire is still pretty nice on pure sorc, and the only damage they lack is the Agonizing Blast CHA to damage. it has another problem being fire damage, though this is partially solvable by Elemental Adept. EB is still better most of the time due to dealing force damage and being able to stack Agonizing Blast on top of everything else, but Rays of Fire provide a pretty competitive option for pure Sorc 12 without sacrificing spell levels.

Ultimately I think Sorc 12, Warlock 2/Sorc 10 and even Figher 2/Warlock 2/Sorc 8 all have their merits but for specifically Sorc 12 helldusk gloves provide a spammable cantrip that won't be too far behind sorlock's EB damage wise with the right setup.

[ACS36]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by causality:

Overoptimizing cantrip DPR be like.

It's fun to break the hame especially for solo runs lol

More like tedious and boring. IF you want to do simple math, you can make up whatever you want all day long and do calculations. Nothing is stopping you.

[Mr Fred]

If you have fun with that playstyle respec red dragon sorc 10/fighter 2 once you get the legendary staff and spam scorching ray instead of eldritch blast. You add cha AND profiency to each ray its indecent.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by ACS36:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

It's fun to break the hame especially for solo runs lol

More like tedious and boring. IF you want to do simple math, you can make up whatever you want all day long and do calculations. Nothing is stopping you.

Different strokes for different folks my friend, it's also fun to see those calculations play out in the game itself for some people. They determine what the best build is then proceed to attempt it in game to see how it plays out.

[Revan619]

With some testing, you can do quite a bit more than OPs original idea with a paladin warlock combination. Testing out a 7/5 split. By default you get 3 attacks, hasted you get six. You take pact magic to put your charima on all of them. So in a turn you can do 6 melee attacks or 6 EB. You can still focus on adding hex for that extra damage per hit but if you go melee you can use paladin and warlock spells for smites. This ups your nuke potential a lot with those warlock spell uses coming back on short rest.

Good to mention you get the paladin auras to add charima to saves, taking half damage from spells, you can do aoe healing as a bonus action. Use paladin slots for your warlock spells.

Been playing with helldusk set for extra pladin/warlock RP on Wyll, fighting inside darkness with devil sight. Seems to be quite a bit more powerful than when he was just pure warlock or dipping into sorc whilst the sorcery point business is still a bit bugged for converting warlock spells.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by Revan619:

With some testing, you can do quite a bit more than OPs original idea with a paladin warlock combination. Testing out a 7/5 split. By default you get 3 attacks, hasted you get six. You take pact magic to put your charima on all of them. So in a turn you can do 6 melee attacks or 6 EB. You can still focus on adding hex for that extra damage per hit but if you go melee you can use paladin and warlock spells for smites. This ups your nuke potential a lot with those warlock spell uses coming back on short rest.

Good to mention you get the paladin auras to add charima to saves, taking half damage from spells, you can do aoe healing as a bonus action. Use paladin slots for your warlock spells.

Been playing with helldusk set for extra pladin/warlock RP on Wyll, fighting inside darkness with devil sight. Seems to be quite a bit more powerful than when he was just pure warlock or dipping into sorc whilst the sorcery point business is still a bit bugged for converting warlock spells.

The only real issue is I can't seem to use paladin spells with warlock slots until I completely run out of spell slots, I wish they wpuld let you pick and choose. Am I missing some trick? Lol

[Revan619]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by Revan619:

With some testing, you can do quite a bit more than OPs original idea with a paladin warlock combination. Testing out a 7/5 split. By default you get 3 attacks, hasted you get six. You take pact magic to put your charima on all of them. So in a turn you can do 6 melee attacks or 6 EB. You can still focus on adding hex for that extra damage per hit but if you go melee you can use paladin and warlock spells for smites. This ups your nuke potential a lot with those warlock spell uses coming back on short rest.

Good to mention you get the paladin auras to add charima to saves, taking half damage from spells, you can do aoe healing as a bonus action. Use paladin slots for your warlock spells.

Been playing with helldusk set for extra pladin/warlock RP on Wyll, fighting inside darkness with devil sight. Seems to be quite a bit more powerful than when he was just pure warlock or dipping into sorc whilst the sorcery point business is still a bit bugged for converting warlock spells.

The only real issue is I can't seem to use paladin spells with warlock slots until I completely run out of spell slots, I wish they wpuld let you pick and choose. Am I missing some trick? Lol

That was the issue sorcerers are having too. Luckily you can pick warlock slots for smites