new attribute system bad

[VoS | ToLazy4Name]

old attribute system good

[Jack the Roamer]

Originally posted by ᛊᚨᛁᛚᛟᚱ ᛗᛟᛟᚾ:

Originally posted by Jack the Roamer:

How dare you speak this way about Bae'zel!

Gith booty probably has spikes on it or something

sometimes you gotta use the guidance cantrip in camp, high risk, high reward

[VoS | ToLazy4Name]

Originally posted by ᛊᚨᛁᛚᛟᚱ ᛗᛟᛟᚾ:

Originally posted by Nox Phantom:

Yeah agree whit ya, can only hope it has new only as option.

The option is to put your points in to match the old system

You can't do that as three (or more, I'm not sure) of the races have had their total attribute points reduced. Humans, half-elves and shield dwarfs are all down some points.

[zero]

old system has its pros and cons

new system has its pros and cons

i will always prefer pathfinders though, but beyond that its the end in the end.

[The Konrad]

So Larian saw the long-standing favouritism Half-Elves and Elves were privileged by and did the right thing: Taking away the undeserved advantages the races inherently had and creating a level playing field. Obviously, the obnoxiously melodic outcry of Elven-supremacists and Half-Elf-Simps will be of Karen-Like proportions, but in the end, they will just be busy writing poetry and crying about how much people will prefer the Chad races with their sigma-grindset. Pretty Based what Larian did, if you ask people who don't have a knife-ear fetish, that is.

[VoS | ToLazy4Name]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

So Larian saw the long-standing favouritism Half-Elves and Elves were privileged by and did the right thing: Taking away the undeserved advantages the races inherently had and creating a level playing field. Obviously, the obnoxiously melodic outcry of Elven-supremacists and Half-Elf-Simps will be of Karen-Like proportions, but in the end, they will just be busy writing poetry and crying about how much people will prefer the Chad races with their sigma-grindset. Pretty Based what Larian did, if you ask people who don't have a knife-ear fetish, that is.

They literally made elves more meta. Humans are essentially pointless, shield dwarfs are essentially pointless and now elves are straight up better than half-elves outside of extremely niche circumstances.

[GrandMajora]

I may put my +1 attribute into the primary ability score of the class I'm going with. But as for that +2, I'm not sure I can bring myself to put it somewhere other than the race's stereotype.

I mean, how the hell can I look at the Half Orcs, who are restricted to using the Large body type, and not be expected to give them a +2 to Strength? Putting that bonus anywhere else on my character is just immersion breaking.


And before you try to argue that Githyanki get a +2 Strength, despite looking like mummified elves... I'm giving them a pass because they are inter dimensional aliens, who's biology probably doesn't work the same way as the people of Faerun.

[The Konrad]

Do you remember what Sven said on his last Panel from Hell?
"Elves and Half-Elves are the favourite classes most picked by the community"
Probably because of their charisma Modifier
It was that moment I lost interest in this community but that's not the point right now.

So now, by leveling the playing field you could now give your Half-Orc, Dwarf or Githanki a nice Char bonus instead.

[Malterras]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

So Larian saw the long-standing favouritism Half-Elves and Elves were privileged by and did the right thing: Taking away the undeserved advantages the races inherently had and creating a level playing field. Obviously, the obnoxiously melodic outcry of Elven-supremacists and Half-Elf-Simps will be of Karen-Like proportions, but in the end, they will just be busy writing poetry and crying about how much people will prefer the Chad races with their sigma-grindset. Pretty Based what Larian did, if you ask people who don't have a knife-ear fetish, that is.

I feel like quite the opposite is true now. All elves have strong proficiencies for both str and dex builds now, with High Elf getting a bonus cantrip, Drow getting some free once daily spells, and Wood Elf getting bonus movement speed. Half elves relied on that extra point to balance the scales as they had no innate proficiencies with weapons or armor, so its only situational advantage is now gone. Humans with a +1 to everything would have made them the new meta with the respec option, as that would have made them the most versatile race in the game. Light armor proficiency is not great, and the only class without that baked in already was wizard, so its virtually useless. Spear/ Halberd is also baked in to many even non melee classes in the form of simple weapon proficiency. Half Elf, Shield Dwarf, and Human essentially lost the only advantages players had to choose them and put the Elves into an even more favorable position.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

Do you remember what Sven said on his last Panel from Hell?
"Elves and Half-Elves are the favourite classes most picked by the community"
Probably because of their charisma Modifier
It was that moment I lost interest in this community but that's not the point right now.

So now, by leveling the playing field you could now give your Half-Orc, Dwarf or Githanki a nice Char bonus instead.

Again, immersion breaking. Dwarves are practically iconic for being stubborn, easily offended, difficult to impress, and generally disdainful towards the competency of other races. That doesn't exactly give off the impression of somebody with a strong sense of charisma.

Half Orcs and Githyanki.... maybe, but only because Charisma is used for the purpose of intimidation, as well as persuasion.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

Do you remember what Sven said on his last Panel from Hell?
"Elves and Half-Elves are the favourite classes most picked by the community"
Probably because of their charisma Modifier
It was that moment I lost interest in this community but that's not the point right now.

So now, by leveling the playing field you could now give your Half-Orc, Dwarf or Githanki a nice Char bonus instead.

Except the playing field is NOT leveled.

Some racial traits are just objectively superior. Humans don't even have racial traits but that was balanced slightly by the fact that they had 6 attribute points.

Half-elfs and Shield Dwarves had 4.

Half-elfs had weaker racial trats than full elves but they made up for it by having more attribute points than elves but less than humans.

Shield Dwarfs had +2 strengths and +2 constitution.

Now all full-blooded elves are superior to all half-elfs, half-orcs are superior to everyone else, gnomes are better than half-elfs thanks to having dark vision and advantage against magical saving throws. Halflings are superior to humans by virtue of rerolling ones and having advantage against being frightened and stout halflings being resistant to poison.

Githyanki and dwarves are superior casters to everyone else now by virtue of also having medium armor proficiency right off the bat as well as the various weapon proficiencies, dark vision for dwarves and innate spell-casting for githyanki.

The races have not been balanced at all based on what has come out. There is no level playing field. Half-elves and shield dwarves just lose out and humans are screwed over by literally every other race being better than them at everything now.

[The Konrad]

Giving the player more choices isn't immersion breaking.

If a player decides he has the prettiest orc with pink hair and barbies voice with those gorgeous protruding tusks out of his mouth that's the players choice.

If you as player find it immersion breaking that you gave your half orc Charisma 16 and Strength 8 that's on you, because you could have avoided that.
I wouldn't mind if Larian opted for a "classic mode" where restricting orignal rules apply to be honest, but giving more choices to informed players is never a bad idea.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by The Konrad:

Do you remember what Sven said on his last Panel from Hell?
"Elves and Half-Elves are the favourite classes most picked by the community"
Probably because of their charisma Modifier
It was that moment I lost interest in this community but that's not the point right now.

So now, by leveling the playing field you could now give your Half-Orc, Dwarf or Githanki a nice Char bonus instead.

Again, immersion breaking. Dwarves are practically iconic for being stubborn, easily offended, difficult to impress, and generally disdainful towards the competency of other races. That doesn't exactly give off the impression of somebody with a strong sense of charisma.

Half Orcs and Githyanki.... maybe, but only because Charisma is used for the purpose of intimidation, as well as persuasion.

Idk I feel like Dwarfs could also be pretty intimidating under the right circumstances.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

Giving the player more choices isn't immersion breaking.

If a player decides he has the prettiest orc with pink hair and barbies voice with those gorgeous protruding tusks out of his mouth that's the players choice.

If you as player find it immersion breaking that you gave your half orc Charisma 16 and Strength 8 that's on you, because you could have avoided that.
I wouldn't mind if Larian opted for a "classic mode" where restricting orignal rules apply to be honest, but giving more choices to informed players is never a bad idea.

I disagree. There is lore attached to this setting. Unless your character was lost / abducted as an infant and raised by a completely different society, then they are going to be the social outcast among their people. They don't fit the lore as it is written, so they are an outlier among their kind.

[Malterras]

Originally posted by The Konrad:

Giving the player more choices isn't immersion breaking.

If a player decides he has the prettiest orc with pink hair and barbies voice with those gorgeous protruding tusks out of his mouth that's the players choice.

If you as player find it immersion breaking that you gave your half orc Charisma 16 and Strength 8 that's on you, because you could have avoided that.
I wouldn't mind if Larian opted for a "classic mode" where restricting orignal rules apply to be honest, but giving more choices to informed players is never a bad idea.

This is exactly what the rules of TCoE addressed. It used the base racials, but allowed for them to be modified at DM discretion. A shield dwarf still had +4 to stats, they just had a limited option to be able to move their 2 +2's around at DM discretion.

[The Konrad]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I disagree. There is lore attached to this setting. Unless your character was lost / abducted as an infant and raised by a completely different society, then they are going to be the social outcast among their people. They don't fit the lore as it is written, so they are an outlier among their kind.

You write that backstory, that headcanon for yourself though.
You have to be okay with your character creation.

But if I want to do a hilariously unbalanced, lore-unfriendly character that meets my specific needs and totally fits my lore version, I wonder why you should be able to keep me from that with restrictive attribute points that have been pre-allocated.