Is a tank necessary?

[doonz]

If I go with astarion, gale, wyll and shadowheart will I gimp myself?

[FuNb0Y86]

Whenever someone talks about tanks in DnD, it's just to describe someone who can go toe to toe with enemies and survive long enough for the encounter to end without casualties.

The main way enemy logic works is by breaking their line of sight because almost nothing can be done without it. Theory for successful tanking in DnD if you use Lae'zel is just be between the enemy and the squishy character. You can also achieve tankhood by standing inside an enemy's encounter radius -- right next to them. If they try and maneuver past you, they have to suffer an opportunity attack from you and anyone else that's engaged with them in melee. They also suffer disadvantage to anyone else attacking them outside their encounter radius as long as they are engaged with someone else in melee. This is how tanking actually works in DnD.

There are also some "taunt" spells Paladin can have, but they just add disadvantage the way getting in their face would do anyway.

***Edit: sorry I was wrong about the advantage on melee combatants. If it's a rogue attacking an engaged enemy, it's an advantage, and an opportunity to use sneak attacks. Everyone else has to make an enemy prone or disabled first. There are also some feats that give advantage to engaged targets. My bad.

Of course you can also use ranged attacks from height for this as well.

[Fisher]

All the people saying that tanks don't exist in D&D are hilarious.

You guys think we're talking about an MMO with forced targeting mechanics and not just a character with high HP, AC, and Resistances?

[Rob'sEvilTwin]

The holy trinity still works in D&D mate, just a bit differently. Tank, Healer, Crowd Control.

[doonz]

What do you mean by holy trinity

[Foolswalkin]

Lots of people using “tank” to mean “durable.” This is not the way it’s normally used in 5e. Generally, a tank is a character that combines a reason for enemies to attack you (like you’re in the way and hard to get away from, or you’ll reaction hit them if they attack someone else) and a reason not to attack you (like you have a really high AC and lots of hit points).

Heavy Armor Fighter with Polearm Mastery and Sentinel is a solid basic tank. If you try to get around it, it will stop you. If you attack someone else, it will get a free attack on you. If you try to attack it, it’s hard to hit and meaningfully hurt.

[Kid Gloves]

Tactically those four characters make a sound team. Based on my EA experience, however, I'd brace for some internal conflict and a LOT of sarcasm.

[FuNb0Y86]

1. Use line of sight rules to protect people
2. Use flanking rules when you aren't the tank(s).
3. Use crowd control as a tank to lock down enemies
4. Paladin has a spell to cause disadvantage on any roll against other targets.
5. Use opportunity attack rules to your advantage to lock enemies down.
6. Wear heavy armor
7. Have a high dex/con score

I don't see how a person can't build tanks in this game, and play them precisely how a person would expect a tank to act.

[doonz]

Originally posted by FuNb0Y86:

1. Use line of sight rules to protect people
2. Use flanking rules when you aren't the tank(s).
3. Use crowd control as a tank to lock down enemies
4. Paladin has a spell to cause disadvantage on any roll against other targets.
5. Use opportunity attack rules to your advantage to lock enemies down.
6. Wear heavy armor
7. Have a high dex/con score

I don't see how a person can't build tanks in this game, and play them precisely how a person would expect a tank to act.

What are line of sight rules?

[FuNb0Y86]

Originally posted by doonz:

Originally posted by FuNb0Y86:

1. Use line of sight rules to protect people
2. Use flanking rules when you aren't the tank(s).
3. Use crowd control as a tank to lock down enemies
4. Paladin has a spell to cause disadvantage on any roll against other targets.
5. Use opportunity attack rules to your advantage to lock enemies down.
6. Wear heavy armor
7. Have a high dex/con score

I don't see how a person can't build tanks in this game, and play them precisely how a person would expect a tank to act.

What are line of sight rules?

You do realize everthing needs line of sight to do anything in this game right? Unless they're a creature that relies on sound or another form of vision to see you.

If you break a goblin archer's line of sight with a wall or something they can't see around, they have to maneuver to see you again.

You can also do this to get back into stealth in combat.

Edit: So what I meant as far as tanking is concerned, you can break someone's direct line of sight of an attack simply by placing yourself in front of him. This stops them from range attacking at the same level as you because they can't see around you for the shot. That, or they shoot you (the tank) instead.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Originally posted by doonz:

If I go with astarion, gale, wyll and shadowheart will I gimp myself?

No, as aggro and taunting isn't really a mechanic in BG3.

But most encounters do involve a non-trivial portion of your enemies being meatbags that rush you in melee.

So I don't think you need a tank, but having at least one high AC / high HP character is helpful, no doubt.

- A

Polarbear says high.

[doonz]

I am struggling without a tank

[FuNb0Y86]

Originally posted by doonz:

I am struggling without a tank

Open spaces are the worst -- if that's an issue.

Line of sight rules won't help much there, so try and position weaker characters at higher ground. Everyone has disadvantage to range rolls from below, and high ground lets ranged moves have advantage too. You can always invest more in crowd control too. Slot heavier armor to a high con character, and also medium armor that has dex bonus to armor on your HP heavy person who also has decent dex score to make the difference.

Remember to bait enemies in open spaces. Let them waste their turns dashing to you while you use the ranged mage or rogue to hit and run (you can use one action and move in the same turn normally). Place your "tank" in front of them as they back up to retreat after firing shots and running. Crowd control, again, is a must. Don't forget to use environment effects too. Grease trap a spot as you're moving back, light it on fire, and dip it with your tank while he/she waits for the melee mobs to advance.

[doonz]

Thanks Funboy will try this now

[doonz]

Okay guys turns out you don't need a tank at all, doing fine without

[doonz]

Originally posted by ⓀⒾⓦⒾ‰:

you can use pet summons to sponge up some big initial hits.
summon it right under the biggest foes nose and the enemy will waste its best skills on your pet

Yep this is what I'm doing working a treat