Where Da Hell Is Gruumsh!?

[GrandMajora]

So, we're getting Half Orcs added to full release, as well as the War Domain, but mysteriously GRUUMSH seems to be absent from the list of available deities for Clerics to pick from.

Do you want orcish hordes invading your villages?

Because this is how you get orcish hordes invading your villages!

[zero]

actually im pretty sure the lack of grummsh would prevent that

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by zero:

actually im pretty sure the lack of grummsh would prevent that

That's what Corellon thought when he said Toril had no room for them!

[Razorblade]

I don't imagine Gruumsh is a very popular god amongst Half-Orcs. Most Half-Orcs are raised in human-dominated towns and cities, not Orc tribes.

[Kiru]

Where would be the point of having the option in the game if it doesnt have any impact on the story? Sure, they could add a name and an icon to the list of course but unless there was reactivity in the world around you which is appearantly not the case if they decided to leave it out... it seems rather meaningless to me.

Better to have a handfull of options that the gameworld can recognize and react to than an extensive list that will only ever decorate your character sheet. *shrug* Or well, thats how I see it at least. You could just imagine your own thing if in game reactivity doesnt matter to you too I suppose.

[Aoroi]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

I don't imagine Gruumsh is a very popular god amongst Half-Orcs. Most Half-Orcs are raised in human-dominated towns and cities, not Orc tribes.

Lore-wise, I think this is one of the better answers. Why would a half-orc worship a god when that god's own people would rather kill them for being a half-breed? Gruumsh's morals were basically might is right and weed out the weaker ones, and a half-orc is inferior to an orc (in orc culture.)

I mean, sure, you may find a few tribes that allow half-orcs, and maybe some of them worship Gruumsh because that is what they are told they should be doing, but I don't recall any stores/lore of a half-orc leading them. So no real impact.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Kiru:

Where would be the point of having the option in the game if it doesnt have any impact on the story? Sure, they could add a name and an icon to the list of course but unless there was reactivity in the world around you which is appearantly not the case if they decided to leave it out... it seems rather meaningless to me.

Better to have a handfull of options that the gameworld can recognize and react to than an extensive list that will only ever decorate your character sheet. *shrug* Or well, thats how I see it at least. You could just imagine your own thing if in game reactivity doesnt matter to you too I suppose.

All the other chief deities for the racial options in the game are available.

Corellon Larethian - Elves

Lolth and Eilistraee - Drow

Moradin - Dwarves

Laduguer - Duergar

Garl Glittergold - Gnomes

Yondalla - Halflings

Vlaakith - Githyanki

So where is the deity responsible for the creation of Orcs, and by extension Half Orcs?

----------------------

Originally posted by Razorblade:

I don't imagine Gruumsh is a very popular god amongst Half-Orcs. Most Half-Orcs are raised in human-dominated towns and cities, not Orc tribes.

Not true, half orcs who are raised among their tribes often rise to positions of leadership because the pure blood kin recognize the benefits of their increased intelligence.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Aoroi:

Originally posted by Razorblade:

I don't imagine Gruumsh is a very popular god amongst Half-Orcs. Most Half-Orcs are raised in human-dominated towns and cities, not Orc tribes.

Lore-wise, I think this is one of the better answers. Why would a half-orc worship a god when that god's own people would rather kill them for being a half-breed? Gruumsh's morals were basically might is right and weed out the weaker ones, and a half-orc is inferior to an orc (in orc culture.)

I mean, sure, you may find a few tribes that allow half-orcs, and maybe some of them worship Gruumsh because that is what they are told they should be doing, but I don't recall any stores/lore of a half-orc leading them. So no real impact.

Orcs do not give a rat's arse about purity of blood. If they look down upon somebody, it's because they are considered a burden to the tribe, not because they aren't full blooded. Orcs will mate with practically anything that is genetically compatible. Whether that be humans, goblinoids, ogres, demons, est.

Half Orcs even recognize that the higher intelligence that Half Orcs possess makes them more effective leaders, and thus are willing to allow them to become chieftains of their tribe if they prove they can pull their own weight.

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

half orcs who are raised among their tribes often rise to positions of leadership because the pure blood kin recognize the benefits of their increased intelligence.

I don't disagree with that statement; I'm just saying the vast majority of Half-Orcs aren't raised in Orc society, making Gruumsh not a priority god to include.

You can't have Githyanki as a playable race without including Vlaakith or Drow without Llolth, for example, but you can absolutely have Half-Orcs without including Gruumsh.

[EruWan]

waaaaaaahg

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

half orcs who are raised among their tribes often rise to positions of leadership because the pure blood kin recognize the benefits of their increased intelligence.

I don't disagree with that statement; I'm just saying the vast majority of Half-Orcs aren't raised in Orc society, making Gruumsh not a priority god to include.

You can't have Githyanki as a playable race without including Vlaakith or Drow without Llolth, for example, but you can absolutely have Half-Orcs without including Gruumsh.

It's a priority for ME, darn it!

Who is my Half Orc cleric of War going to pray to? Tempus?

Bah, he's a god of 'honorable' combat. Full of rules and regulations. Not the fiery wrath and savagery that literally flows through a half orc's veins, because Gruumsh infused his rage into their very blood.

[GrandMajora]

Good News: It seems that Gruumsh was, indeed, added to full release.

Bad News: It seems that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul were all removed.

I assume that this is due to plot reasons?

Also, some gods seems to be racially exclusive, like how only Githyanki can worship Vlaakith, and only Dwarves (presumably Duergar) can worship Laduguer.

And it seems like you can't worship Shar unless you're playing Shadowheart, because I didn't see her in the deity list for any of the races I picked.