Goblins as a playable race? - Very mild and early on spoilers

[MoSo]

I think making goblins a playable choice would fit neatly into act one, just not through the nautiloid start. Everything is in place to create a neat little origin.

You've got the goblin camp as your start area, the cult present at said camp, and true soul gut to infect you with the tadpole.
The ransacking of the blighted village could serve as justification as to why the player character gets "honored" with the tadpole.

The justification to split with the goblin camp could be one of the following:
- Being secretly loyal to the old goblin faith
- Overhearing some rather unbecoming aspect of the cults plans
(maybe shedding themselves of the rather weak goblins after they have fulfilled their purpose)
- Feeling and fearing the influence of the tadpole, like most of the other soon-to-be-playable characters do
- An interaction with a stranger or prisoner who sways us to break away

The developers proved already, that body height/size doesn't keep them from creating playable races like the dwarves or halflings.

What interests me the most about that scenario are all the possible interactions with the grove, the goblin camp, general people who mostly look down on the almost feral goblins etc.
Astarion relationship to our goblin character especially intrigues me!
He's sure to object in some way or to deliver some good quips as to why he's following/working with a goblin.

Overall: I think this could be part of a bigger DLC in the far far future

I hope my jibber jabber made some sense.
It's not a very realistic idea but it's still fun to imagine the possibilities and have a little discussion about how they could be implemented.

[Krypto]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av KeepCleaving:

Drow aren't worse than Goblins. They may be capable of better schemes and evil plans. But goblins EAT people. They are too far removed from a social creature. Same as bugbears and hobgoblins. To be clear Githyanki are even worse than Drow, but ignorance of what a githyanki is, aids them in this story.

Goblins and Bugbears are savages, but not Hobgoblins. Their society is heavily militaristic, and living within their territory can actually be quite tolerable, so long as you abide by their rules.

That's one reason why I think if goblinoids are going to be made playable options, we're most likely to see Hobgoblins, rather than Goblins and Bugbears.

I think we'd see Goblins just because they're more popular / commonly requested. If you run public games at LGSs and conventions you'd be surprised how often people ask to play gobbos. They're a fairly popular race, and I think IF (big if imho) Larian introduced a goblinoid race I think they would take the road of the most wished for one.

I also don't think it's be any less believable for the grove to let in a Goblin than a Drow. Especially because the whole reason they let you in is because you help them fend off the goblin wave. I think they would be wary of you, but much like how your allies accept M'Khiin in SoD with some apprehension I imagine a Goblin hero would be accepted the same.

I am surprised to see such a lack of imagination in a game built around the world's biggest TTRPG. Unlikely heroes are not only a common staple of Faerunian lore, but the genre as a whole.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Krypto:

I am surprised to see such a lack of imagination in a game built around the world's biggest TTRPG. Unlikely heroes are not only a common staple of Faerunian lore, but the genre as a whole.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to play Goblins, and would make judicious use of FIREBALL if the option was ever implemented. But in terms of social interactions, Hobgoblins would be much easier to implement into the game than Goblins or Bugbears.

[spamfilter32]

Ursprungligen skrivet av KeepCleaving:

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

You're not killed on sight this early in the game, when your character is out in the middle of nowhere. But Larian have come out and confirmed that once you get to Baldur's Gate, the drow are going to have a much harder time moving through society.

If you aren't using magic to disguise yourself as a different race, you'll need some type of mask, hood or helmet to cover your face. People are going to want to kill you just for being a drow, or presumably some other equally infamous race.

If Zevlor was willing to let a DROW into the grove, I don't see why he wouldn't allow a goblin. Especially one who helped defend the grove from attack.

Drow are far, far worse than goblins. As I pointed out, the goblins are terrified of you, if you're playing a drow. One must ask themselves what kind of a monster is so evil, that it scares other monsters into complacency.

Drow aren't worse than Goblins. They may be capable of better schemes and evil plans. But goblins EAT people. They are too far removed from a social creature. Same as bugbears and hobgoblins. To be clear Githyanki are even worse than Drow, but ignorance of what a githyanki is, aids them in this story.

I get you want the fantasy of "A goblin that is trying to do a good thing etc.." But it would never work unless they are full disguise. And if they are full disguise all the time, then... what's the point of being a Goblin then?

It has already been shown that Drow have a lot of negative reactions so giving Goblin character similar reactions would not be hard at all.

Zevlor only allows a Drow character into the Grove because he personally witnessed you, the drow, save the gate from the Goblins Scouts. Same could hold true if you were a Goblin.

Let's also not forget you are not traveling alone. That can also cause some to pause in the attack on sight factor. Lastly, by the time characters reach lvl 5, you will have attained a lot of local, even regional, recognition so people hearing about the "good" Goblin and his/her companions will have started to seep in. Also, many of the people you meet in the 1st part of the 1st chapter, will reach Balders Gate before you do; the Tiefling refugees, Aradin, Myrina, the Flaming Fist, etc.

Last lastly, the Zhentarim are easily as evil as the Lolth Drow of Menzoberranzan, yet they are not killed on sight.

[brendan_in_china]

Zhents need to hide their identity, as they do in BG3. Just before BG1 was set (there's a pair of Zhent agents you could recruit), the Banite Zhentarim did their mad power grab and had their epic defeat.

Long lived races and those affected would still remember.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Well. There aren't going to be alternate start zones.
And they'd have to bring back the voice actors to record an entirely new set of dialogue for every single goblin in that camp specifically to interact with other goblins, including all the branching and secret dialogues.

Its just not going to happen, even if it makes sense, this isnt that kind of game. This isnt world of warcraft.

You will however, find a Goblin mod when the game releases, that will probably just reskin a halfling. And maybe the mod adds a custom start zone, i doubt it, but maybe, but you wont be getting any new voice lines, maybe some text based dialogue though.

[KeepCleaving]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Jiren, The Strongest:

Well. There aren't going to be alternate start zones.
And they'd have to bring back the voice actors to record an entirely new set of dialogue for every single goblin in that camp specifically to interact with other goblins, including all the branching and secret dialogues.

Its just not going to happen, even if it makes sense, this isnt that kind of game. This isnt world of warcraft.

You will however, find a Goblin mod when the game releases, that will probably just reskin a halfling. And maybe the mod adds a custom start zone, i doubt it, but maybe, but you wont be getting any new voice lines, maybe some text based dialogue though.

World of Warcraft really is a poor example. It's core files are non modifiable.

Skyrim however (better comparison as both games are both heavily modifiable and non online service games) has plenty of "alternative start" mods.

With Vall-e you can take the voices of other goblins and modify new quest dialogue if need be. Right now the only limitation is the motivation to do such.

[spamfilter32]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Jiren, The Strongest:

Well. There aren't going to be alternate start zones.
And they'd have to bring back the voice actors to record an entirely new set of dialogue for every single goblin in that camp specifically to interact with other goblins, including all the branching and secret dialogues.

Its just not going to happen, even if it makes sense, this isnt that kind of game. This isnt world of warcraft.

They WILL have Half Orc and Dragonborn races as well as the Monk class. All that voice work has already been recorded. IF they are going to include a playable Goblin or Kobald race, they likely have recorded that dialog already aa well. Lastly, calling actors back in to record new dialog happens all the time, and BG3 certainly has the budget to do that, given what we have seen so far.

[Dragon Master]

I wouldn't be opposed to goblins being a playable race at all. I wouldn't even be opposed to orcs or hobgoblins being playable races.

What I want is for the NPCs in the world to react accordingly.

[brendan_in_china]

It's a big ask, eh?

I mean, there's basically race wars in FR. Orcs, goblins and hobgoblins have been imagined as nomadic races at war with the settler races, and is part of the setting history.

So people in Baldur's Gate should at least be initially alarmed at the appearance of say a goblin and display the gamut of reactions; fear, hatred, curiosity, disgust and even friendliness.

That's _a lot_ of reactions to write, record and cut scene. And there's subtleties too. You can't just use the goblin reaction for lizardfolk.

Nah, they're going to draw a line somewhere. I wouldn't say strictly PHB because we've got Githyanki and dataminers found warforged.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av brendan_in_china:

It's a big ask, eh?

I mean, there's basically race wars in FR. Orcs, goblins and hobgoblins have been imagined as nomadic races at war with the settler races, and is part of the setting history.

So people in Baldur's Gate should at least be initially alarmed at the appearance of say a goblin and display the gamut of reactions; fear, hatred, curiosity, disgust and even friendliness.

That's _a lot_ of reactions to write, record and cut scene. And there's subtleties too. You can't just use the goblin reaction for lizardfolk.

Nah, they're going to draw a line somewhere. I wouldn't say strictly PHB because we've got Githyanki and dataminers found warforged.

I still find it ridiculous that people are trying to argue the feasibility of playing various monster races such as goblins and kobolds, when the DROW are already implemented as a playable option.

Drow are far, far more hated and feared than goblins and kobolds will ever be. Hell, even their fellow denizens of the Underdark know that they are bad news.

So if they're allowed to walk around in society unmolested, there is no reason why other monster races could not manage to earn a similar degree of acceptance.

[brendan_in_china]

Lore matters, a lot.

Drow are not a nomadic race that constantly come into conflict with settled races. Their long range surface raids are few and infrequent. They have the rare attack on say Mithril Hall, and that's it.

They're rare and exotic.

Goblins and Orcs are common and everyone knows someone who has suffered at their hands.

I don't understand this modern reductionism where all the races are treated like humans, just with wearing funny ears or big noses. We've talked about it in our group and one theory is that there's now a lot of players who never read any of the FR or DL novels.

[sevensided]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Drow are far, far more hated and feared than goblins and kobolds will ever be. Hell, even their fellow denizens of the Underdark know that they are bad news.

Do people even hate (aside from gnomes) or fear kobolds in Fearun? I'm given to understand they're sometimes 'hired' to dig sewers for large towns and cities, though maybe that's old lore.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av sevensided:

Do people even hate (aside from gnomes) or fear kobolds in Fearun? I'm given to understand they're sometimes 'hired' to dig sewers for large towns and cities, though maybe that's old lore.

Yes, they do get hired by cities, quite commonly as a matter of fact. But the average commoner tends to view kobolds as pests and vermin. We even see Astarion refer to them like they're simple animals twice in the current state of the game.

Ursprungligen skrivet av brendan_in_china:

Lore matters, a lot.

Drow are not a nomadic race that constantly come into conflict with settled races. Their long range surface raids are few and infrequent. They have the rare attack on say Mithril Hall, and that's it.

They're rare and exotic.

Goblins and Orcs are common and everyone knows someone who has suffered at their hands.

I don't understand this modern reductionism where all the races are treated like humans, just with wearing funny ears or big noses. We've talked about it in our group and one theory is that there's now a lot of players who never read any of the FR or DL novels.

It doesn't matter how rarely encountered they are. Everybody knows about the drow's reputation, and civilized regions often seek to kill them on sight.

Just look at what happened to Viconia in BG2. She claims that all she was doing was simply passing through the city, minding her own business. One of the local citizens noticed her and figured out she was a drow, and just being one of them was enough to get her burned at the stake.

If you get her to open up her backstory to you, she also reveals that when she first escaped to the surface, she was initially taken in by a farmer who spent their time building up a level of trust and friendship with her. Only so that she would eventually drop her guard so that the boy and his friends could capture and rape her.

Then we have Zevlor who tells our character that we are "very brave" to walk around without hiding our identity.

Outside of homebrew campaigns where the fantasy racism is more lenient, the official stance towards drow in the Forgotten Realms is that they are despised everywhere they go.

Nobody likes the drow... nobody...

So again, if drow are being made a playable option for us to explore the story, then goblinoids should be no problem at all.

[brendan_in_china]

Drow enjoy an advantage that they're elves, a civilized race. Drow might be evil and reviled, but they are settled in their claimed territories, they're not nomadic raiders.

Bit OT but related. I'm from NZ and we had land wars in 19th century. Anyway, a Maori leader talking with European said (paraphrasing), 'if the issue were just people killed, we could reach agreement, but it's about the land, so we have to keep fighting.'

That's why goblins are 'more evil' than drow. Drow don't come for the farm, they come for the farmers. It's a different kind of evil.

Put another way, goblins and orcs essentially fill the narrative role of the mongols. And absolutely everyone feared the mongols.

[Lightz]

I Absolutely concur! The dialogue options would be so good. Disgusting and rude but also honest and funny. It can't be easy being a Goblin.