Why drow in this game have blue skin?

[Pauca Verba]

From the lore - Drow skin tones ranged from dark grey, jet-black, and obsidian, (with various shades of blue),the albino drow known as the Szarkai being an exception.

But in this game there is more than shades of blue, all drow elves have light blue skin, like they just stepped out of the Avatar movie. Is there a particular reason for that, engine limitation, or atristic choice of the developers?

[GrandMajora]

Publicado originalmente por Pan Darius Kairos:

That's interesting, I did not know that.

Their description from the 5th edition PhB:

"Also called dark elves, the drow have black skin that resembles polished obsidian and stark white or pale yellow hair. They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale as to be mistaken for white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red and blue. They tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves."

[The Dapper Dragon]

While I do instinctively want to blame Larian's pandering to the filthy 'orcs are black people' masses, I think a better reason is expressions don't show up very well on Jet Black characters.

I played a black Hrothgar in XIV for a while (as well as a more Drow-esq 'black-blue color Au-Ra'), seeing my expressions in anything but direct spotlight was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ impossible. A lighter more blue shade makes them more visable.

[Pauca Verba]

Publicado originalmente por Ereghor the Enigmatic:

Because your average hypothetical socially aware player can't tell the difference between a human's darker skin tone and a drow's RGB(0.0.0)-adjacent skin and thinks they are a racist caricature.

The drow were grayish and blueish and purple-ish in quite a few depictions for a while now, actually. In BG2 Viconia is gray-blueish in her portrait. Drizzt was kinda purple from the outset, though different renditions tend to recolor him. That said, the game does not prevent you from making your own drow character with a more canonical skin tone. Minthara does look a tad too pale, though.

Oh, if it can be made pitch black in the editor, then it's sort of fine. Still sad that other drow will look like moon elves, but at least mine will be a cool one)

[Pauca Verba]

Publicado originalmente por Trap Queen 85:

Publicado originalmente por Pan Darius Kairos:

Drow's skin color had nothing to do with light (or the lack thereof) - it was a 'curse'.

Yes, using skin color as a 'curse' is problematic.

I'm on the fence on this one. On the one hand I'd ask if people would have an issue with this curse if the curse was that they all had white skin. But on the other hand if my skin tone told everyone at large that I was cursed by the gods regardless of what I as an individual ahd to do with the curse being placed, yeah that would be a sucky way to live to be sure depending on the situation [i.e. my people are the most powerful under the earth striking fear in all who see me vs. I'm an outcast on the surface where I'm a minority with the added bonus of being hated because their favored god cursed my people.]

That's the entire point of Drizzt Do'Urden, a drow who escapes the Underdark only to be chased and hunted by those who think that he is evil because of his skin. But then he finds friends who care not for his looks, but for the personality, and becomes famous and more or less tolerated in the world, showing everyone how stupid it is to judge others by their appearance. That's the really cool concept, i like it a lot, and this is part of why i am not happy about drow being blue now. Apart from the fact that black skin and white hair is the most amazing appearance i ever saw in fantasy.

[Trap Queen 85]

Publicado originalmente por Pauca Verba:

Publicado originalmente por Trap Queen 85:

I'm on the fence on this one. On the one hand I'd ask if people would have an issue with this curse if the curse was that they all had white skin. But on the other hand if my skin tone told everyone at large that I was cursed by the gods regardless of what I as an individual ahd to do with the curse being placed, yeah that would be a sucky way to live to be sure depending on the situation [i.e. my people are the most powerful under the earth striking fear in all who see me vs. I'm an outcast on the surface where I'm a minority with the added bonus of being hated because their favored god cursed my people.]

That's the entire point of Drizzt Do'Urden, a drow who escapes the Underdark only to be chased and hunted by those who think that he is evil because of his skin. But then he finds friends who care not for his looks, but for the personality, and becomes famous and more or less tolerated in the world, showing everyone how stupid it is to judge others by their appearance. That's the really cool concept, i like it a lot, and this is part of why i am not happy about drow being blue now. Apart from the fact that black skin and white hair is the most amazing appearance i ever saw in fantasy.

Oh I completely agree about how such things add depth to the story though it is a human one[meaning a story taken from irl human experiences].

The concept of absolute equality despite diversity on the level of humans does not seem natural to us. And it could be such a thing exists we just haven't seen it and haven't experienced the challenges enough over vast amounts of time [because time is the most natural avenue for implementing change not forcing it] to see it evolve. But that's why I do not like the idea of taking the core game and changing it to have the concept of absolute equality be the foundation for the game for a variety of reasons. First of all it's boring. Secondly it doesn't feel realistic.

I'm all for new settings where such things could occur it just shouldn't be the case for the core rules system.

[GrandMajora]

Publicado originalmente por Pauca Verba:

That's the entire point of Drizzt Do'Urden, a drow who escapes the Underdark only to be chased and hunted by those who think that he is evil because of his skin. But then he finds friends who care not for his looks, but for the personality, and becomes famous and more or less tolerated in the world, showing everyone how stupid it is to judge others by their appearance. That's the really cool concept, i like it a lot, and this is part of why i am not happy about drow being blue now. Apart from the fact that black skin and white hair is the most amazing appearance i ever saw in fantasy.

They don't judge him because of his appearance. They judge him because of his people's reputation for being one of the most evil races to inhabit Faerun. Good drow are extremely rare, and most of them die before they even catch a glimpse of the surface world. So the people were perfectly justified in assuming the worst about Drizz't.

Does the fact that other races in the world (including humans) come in dark skinned variations completely escape people's notice? You can't claim that Orcs and Drow are analogues for dark skinned humans, when you have actual dark skinned humans existing at the same time!

[Trap Queen 85]

Publicado originalmente por GrandMajora:

Publicado originalmente por Pauca Verba:

That's the entire point of Drizzt Do'Urden, a drow who escapes the Underdark only to be chased and hunted by those who think that he is evil because of his skin. But then he finds friends who care not for his looks, but for the personality, and becomes famous and more or less tolerated in the world, showing everyone how stupid it is to judge others by their appearance. That's the really cool concept, i like it a lot, and this is part of why i am not happy about drow being blue now. Apart from the fact that black skin and white hair is the most amazing appearance i ever saw in fantasy.

They don't judge him because of his appearance. They judge him because of his people's reputation for being one of the most evil races to inhabit Faerun. Good drow are extremely rare, and most of them die before they even catch a glimpse of the surface world. So the people were perfectly justified in assuming the worst about Drizz't.

Does the fact that other races in the world (including humans) come in dark skinned variations completely escape people's notice? You can't claim that Orcs and Drow are analogues for dark skinned humans, when you have actual dark skinned humans existing at the same time!

Yes this is actually a better depiction of the story.

[GrandMajora]

Publicado originalmente por Trap Queen 85:

Yes this is actually a better depiction of the story.

And I've never even read his books!

[id795078477]

Publicado originalmente por GrandMajora:

Publicado originalmente por Pan Darius Kairos:

That's interesting, I did not know that.

Their description from the 5th edition PhB:

"Also called dark elves, the drow have black skin that resembles polished obsidian and stark white or pale yellow hair. They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale as to be mistaken for white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red and blue. They tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves."

Wait a second, that seems wrong? Or at least it contradicts the lore of dark elves?
Dark elves = a race of elves that lived on the surface before Corellon's wife Oraschnee betrayed him and he subsequently cast her down as a demon Lolth - and since a lot of the leaders of dark elves were involved into this ordeal they were exiled under the ground too becoming the first drow.

But dark elves are not drow per say. Predecessors - yes, but not the same. It is even more evident by the fact that not all dark elves were exiled, some of them still exist in their original form and they are even allowed to become clerics of Corellon. He didn't exile all of them because not all of them agreed with whatever treason were plotted by Oraschnee and so not all of them supported her. There are entire communities of those dark elves still living in Ysgard (first layer of Arborea) - the place where Corellon was born.

Bottom line - the majority of dark elves became drow and drow are the dark elves transformed by Corellon, but not all of them were. That means that in practice the drow "branched out" but the original dark elves still exist.

[GrandMajora]

Publicado originalmente por Dellecross:

Wait a second, that seems wrong? Or at least it contradicts the lore of dark elves?
Dark elves = a race of elves that lived on the surface before Corellon's wife Oraschnee betrayed him and he subsequently cast her down as a demon Lolth - and since a lot of the leaders of dark elves were involved into this ordeal they were exiled under the ground too becoming the first drow.

But dark elves are not drow per say. Predecessors - yes, but not the same. It is even more evident by the fact that not all dark elves were exiled, some of them still exist in their original form and they are even allowed to become clerics of Corellon. He didn't exile all of them because not all of them agreed with whatever treason were plotted by Oraschnee and so not all of them supported her. There are entire communities of those dark elves still living in Ysgard (first layer of Arborea) - the place where Corellon was born.

Bottom line - the majority of dark elves became drow and drow are the dark elves transformed by Corellon, but not all of them were. That means that in practice the drow "branched out" but the original dark elves still exist.

It seems that at some point, Dark Elves and Drow became interchangeable terms with each other. I don't think I've ever seen a D&D game where Dark Elf was a playable subrace, without them also being called Drow.

[id795078477]

Publicado originalmente por GrandMajora:

Publicado originalmente por Dellecross:

Wait a second, that seems wrong? Or at least it contradicts the lore of dark elves?
Dark elves = a race of elves that lived on the surface before Corellon's wife Oraschnee betrayed him and he subsequently cast her down as a demon Lolth - and since a lot of the leaders of dark elves were involved into this ordeal they were exiled under the ground too becoming the first drow.

But dark elves are not drow per say. Predecessors - yes, but not the same. It is even more evident by the fact that not all dark elves were exiled, some of them still exist in their original form and they are even allowed to become clerics of Corellon. He didn't exile all of them because not all of them agreed with whatever treason were plotted by Oraschnee and so not all of them supported her. There are entire communities of those dark elves still living in Ysgard (first layer of Arborea) - the place where Corellon was born.

Bottom line - the majority of dark elves became drow and drow are the dark elves transformed by Corellon, but not all of them were. That means that in practice the drow "branched out" but the original dark elves still exist.

It seems that at some point, Dark Elves and Drow became interchangeable terms with each other. I don't think I've ever seen a D&D game where Dark Elf was a playable subrace, without them also being called Drow.

Fair point. But - a shame. Subjectively, of course - but I'm a big fan of dark elves and not so much fond of the drow. I guess substituting it with the Seldarine drow somewhat works yet some folks above rightfully noted that even Seldarine drow are still drow and are cursed by Corellon. Original dark elves are not and so make for a fascinating race: those of them who still exist in their original form were able to resist the temptations offered by Orashnee and have the resolve and loyalty to Corellon and the Seldarine. Like - "the good guys" with no drama and no strings attached, also with proof to show to their name :-p

[Trap Queen 85]

Publicado originalmente por Dellecross:

Publicado originalmente por GrandMajora:

Their description from the 5th edition PhB:

"Also called dark elves, the drow have black skin that resembles polished obsidian and stark white or pale yellow hair. They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale as to be mistaken for white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red and blue. They tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves."

Wait a second, that seems wrong? Or at least it contradicts the lore of dark elves?
Dark elves = a race of elves that lived on the surface before Corellon's wife Oraschnee betrayed him and he subsequently cast her down as a demon Lolth - and since a lot of the leaders of dark elves were involved into this ordeal they were exiled under the ground too becoming the first drow.

But dark elves are not drow per say. Predecessors - yes, but not the same. It is even more evident by the fact that not all dark elves were exiled, some of them still exist in their original form and they are even allowed to become clerics of Corellon. He didn't exile all of them because not all of them agreed with whatever treason were plotted by Oraschnee and so not all of them supported her. There are entire communities of those dark elves still living in Ysgard (first layer of Arborea) - the place where Corellon was born.

Bottom line - the majority of dark elves became drow and drow are the dark elves transformed by Corellon, but not all of them were. That means that in practice the drow "branched out" but the original dark elves still exist.

Nope.

I'd post it here but it's way too long. The main points being Elves were created under the Seldarine of which Lolth was a part of but this is where the agreement on the origins of the Drow departs.

According to Drow Loth approached Corellon wanting the Elves to become more adaptable like the humans and wanted to give them skills and power that would make them masters over the other races lest they become weaker and fall behind other races. In her face Corellon agreed but after assembling the Seldarine he convinced them that the Elves needed to remain as they are which Lolth took as a betrayal.

According to the Drow, Lolth met with the most skilled and brilliant and strongest of the Elves in secret and taught to them her wisdom of skill and power and magic behind the backs of the other gods.

"But some among Lolth’s new followers grew frightened of
the coming war, and ran to the elves still taken in by Corellon
and the Seldarine. What they learned, the gods learned, and
they grew angry at Lolth for her disobedience, and frightened that her duaral might come to dominate elf culture. In
a twist of sheerest irony and arrogance, Corellon—who had
prevented the gods from teaching the elves the arts of war
when the elves were faced with outside threats—was the fi rst
to show his children the bow and the blade when the threat
came from one of his own.
“But, great Corellon,” the elf leaders asked their deity, as they
lifted their swords for war, “how are we to know our enemy from
our brothers and sisters? For we all look alike, and you have said
that the traitor Lolth has taught her followers to lie.”
This worried the Seldarine greatly, until the goddess Hanali
Celanil, weakest and most pathetic of the pantheon, arose.
“We shall solve this problem,” she said, “by marking all those
who are not loyal. For while Lolth is the mightiest among us,
she cannot stop us if we work together. As day is to night, so
shall you be to those who follow the traitor.” And the Seldarine
worked their will and wrought great change upon the duaral,
turning their skin from the pale of the elves to black as pitch"

[GrandMajora]

Publicado originalmente por Trap Queen 85:

snip

That is some glorious trolling on the Seldarine's part.

"The enemy are masters at infiltration!"

"Not if we paint a giant target on their face!"

[id795078477]

Publicado originalmente por Trap Queen 85:

Nope.

I'd post it here but it's way too long. The main points being Elves were created under the Seldarine of which Lolth was a part of but this is where the agreement on the origins of the Drow departs.

According to Drow Loth approached Corellon wanting the Elves to become more adaptable like the humans and wanted to give them skills and power that would make them masters over the other races lest they become weaker and fall behind other races. In her face Corellon agreed but after assembling the Seldarine he convinced them that the Elves needed to remain as they are which Lolth took as a betrayal.

According to the Drow, Lolth met with the most skilled and brilliant and strongest of the Elves in secret and taught to them her wisdom of skill and power and magic behind the backs of the other gods.

"But some among Lolth’s new followers grew frightened of
the coming war, and ran to the elves still taken in by Corellon
and the Seldarine. What they learned, the gods learned, and
they grew angry at Lolth for her disobedience, and frightened that her duaral might come to dominate elf culture. In
a twist of sheerest irony and arrogance, Corellon—who had
prevented the gods from teaching the elves the arts of war
when the elves were faced with outside threats—was the fi rst
to show his children the bow and the blade when the threat
came from one of his own.
“But, great Corellon,” the elf leaders asked their deity, as they
lifted their swords for war, “how are we to know our enemy from
our brothers and sisters? For we all look alike, and you have said
that the traitor Lolth has taught her followers to lie.”
This worried the Seldarine greatly, until the goddess Hanali
Celanil, weakest and most pathetic of the pantheon, arose.
“We shall solve this problem,” she said, “by marking all those
who are not loyal. For while Lolth is the mightiest among us,
she cannot stop us if we work together. As day is to night, so
shall you be to those who follow the traitor.” And the Seldarine
worked their will and wrought great change upon the duaral,
turning their skin from the pale of the elves to black as pitch"

I didn't get that, sorry. I.e. what do you mean "nope"? You pretty much described what I was talking about, i.e. that some of the dark elves did not roll with the plan of Orashnee and so they were left as they were.. the dark elves, not the drow.

[Trap Queen 85]

Publicado originalmente por Dellecross:

I didn't get that, sorry. I.e. what do you mean "nope"? You pretty much described what I was talking about, i.e. that some of the dark elves did not roll with the plan of Arashnee and so they were left as they were.. the dark elves, not the drow.

Again no. They were not dark Elves prior. There were only Seldarine [Elves as a whole in fact it specifically mentions that they are pale] and Drow [Once part of the Seldarine but no more] and only the Drow were marked with pitch skin tones.