Paladins with no Diety?

[Knightmage Bael]

Aren't Paladins obligated to select a diety normally? Did they just decide Cause + Diety would be too specific of a customization option?

[Trap Queen 85]

PEPEKING původně napsal:

Trap Queen 85 původně napsal:

Because Divinity is not faith. First of all Divinity is described as a spark [literally described as such in the rule books] so it's this special thing that either a god is born with, inherits, steals, or earns through say killing another god. Meaning no mortal being can have the spark.

Now if you think of that spark as a battery of power that does not exist on the Prime Material plane the only way to get that power from the spark over to a mortal being is if a divine being shares it. So no having faith has nothing to do with divinity. Even worshipers aren't granted divinity or divine power. Divine beings grant divine power to others as they see fit to do so.

So divine being can share power with paladin that fits the concepts that this divine being represents without prayers and religious mysticism. Yes?

A divine being can share it's power with whomever they wish regardless if said being worships them or even has similar world views, ethics, etc... or not. Now I'm guessing with the latter that I'd doubt they would do that but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Knightmage Bael]

Trap Queen 85 původně napsal:

Also only specific Aasimar are imbued with divine power [radiant energy]. The vast majority are not.

Forgotten Realms Wiki does state they "are but not always descended from Celestials". Also due to their nature they are more drawn to casting with Divine magic than Arcane. (Many become Paladins, which is why I bring it up)

[Trap Queen 85]

Archmage_Bael původně napsal:

Trap Queen 85 původně napsal:

Also only specific Aasimar are imbued with divine power [radiant energy]. The vast majority are not.

Forgotten Realms Wiki does state they "are but not always descended from Celestials". Also due to their nature they are more drawn to casting with Divine magic than Arcane. (Many become Paladins, which is why I bring it up)

Agreed I was just making the distinction that while yes they do tend to focus on casting using Divine magic their power is generally not inherent within them [extremely rare select few do have inherent radiant energy]. They still will serve a divine being in some way in order to access that magic. But yes that is their preference over the arcane.

[GrandMajora]

Archmage_Bael původně napsal:

Forgotten Realms Wiki does state they "are but not always descended from Celestials". Also due to their nature they are more drawn to casting with Divine magic than Arcane. (Many become Paladins, which is why I bring it up)

In older editions, the planetouched races were considered to be the direct offspring between mortals and outsiders. But now, it is possible for somebody to become planetouched by being exposed to the energies of those planes.

For example, you can be born a normal person, who becomes an Aasimar / Tiefling / Genasi later on in life, by being exposed to energies from the Upper / Lower / Elemental planes.

[PocketYoda]

Yojo0o původně napsal:

dulany67 původně napsal:

I found out this morning that in OneD&D paladins are in the Priest grouping. Does this affect anybody's thinking on this topic?

So are druids, right? Druids don't draw their power from gods, they draw it from nature.

Which is a god in its own right, Sylvanus

[RocketMan]

PocketYoda původně napsal:

Yojo0o původně napsal:

So are druids, right? Druids don't draw their power from gods, they draw it from nature.

Which is a god in its own right, Gaia.

which is not always the case no?
Pretty sure ravnica doesn't have gaia and ravnica is canon 5e.

[PocketYoda]

Mail me to the Moon původně napsal:

PocketYoda původně napsal:

Which is a god in its own right, Gaia.

which is not always the case no?
Pretty sure ravnica doesn't have gaia and ravnica is canon 5e.

Ravinca is an outlier its a card game added to D&D not exact D&D lore wise.. I also changed my thread Gaia is Earth not D&D.. my error.

[RocketMan]

PocketYoda původně napsal:

Mail me to the Moon původně napsal:

which is not always the case no?
Pretty sure ravnica doesn't have gaia and ravnica is canon 5e.

Ravinca is an outlier its a card game added to D&D not exact D&D lore wise.. I also changed my thread Gaia is Earth not D&D.. my error.

Ravnica is still canon 5e. there are official source books for it.

Lore for the sword coast and the like does not mean it's lore for dnd the game. Which is probably a part of why they made paladins get their powers from oaths instead of what, in some settings, would be nonexistent gods.

[Knightmage Bael]

Mail me to the Moon původně napsal:

Ravnica is still canon 5e. there are official source books for it.

Lore for the sword coast and the like does not mean it's lore for dnd the game. Which is probably a part of why they made paladins get their powers from oaths instead of what, in some settings, would be nonexistent gods.

You can always copypastsa gods and slap different names on them to suit your setting. TT games like Path and D&D should/would encourage you to do your own thing if you have the confidence or experienced.

I brewed up a Cervitaur/Deer-person from scratch and used help from some experts on the subreddit to make a balanced playable deer-person. Which has been really fun.

Anyway, should be fine though.

[PocketYoda]

Mail me to the Moon původně napsal:

PocketYoda původně napsal:

Ravinca is an outlier its a card game added to D&D not exact D&D lore wise.. I also changed my thread Gaia is Earth not D&D.. my error.

Ravnica is still canon 5e. there are official source books for it.

Lore for the sword coast and the like does not mean it's lore for dnd the game. Which is probably a part of why they made paladins get their powers from oaths instead of what, in some settings, would be nonexistent gods.

For me it does because those worlds have been around forever.. P.S. i'd never play Ravinca because there are no Halflings or Gnomes..

[Siegdarth]

GrandMajora původně napsal:

Siegdarth původně napsal:

LOL?

Barbarian powers comes from his rage.
Fighter powers (echo knight, EK, Battlemaster) comes from training.
Wizard powers comes from study.
Ranger from training, even the spells.
Monk from training.

So you tell me that a naked guy can get increased resistances, incorporate the spirit of animals, run fast as ♥♥♥♥ just because he is pissed off but a guy can't do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just based in his commitment and faith in his oaths?

In 20 years playing DnD i'm just annoyed how paladins became the same as a templar.

Because, as we have tried to explain many times now, Divine magic MUST have the backing of a deity in the Forgotten Realms setting. That is the source from which divine magic originates.

When a Cleric uses magic, they temporarily transform their body into a conduit through which their deity is able to act upon the mortal plane without violating any sort of cosmic laws in the process.

Clerics do not study higher level spells. They are granted higher level spells from their deity. That is also why they get access to their entire spell book, while other casters have to build their repertoire over time.

-------------------------

Even Druids fall into this category as well. They may not be traditional priests, but nearly all of them worship Sylvanus, or at least highly revere him. Being the god of nature, Sylvanus IS nature itself. So by communing with nature, the Druids are effectively communing with Sylvanus.

The divine power of gods is obtained from faith.


The gods need people's faith to increase their power to go from a minor deity to a major one. So FAITH is the fuel of gods. It's like a circle, followers believe in a god and the god lend its power to a cleric to act his will and acquire more followers, so the god can get more power.

What 5e paladin does is having faith in own acts by following an oath. Oathbreakers also have powers, but they are based on faith in himself than on an oath.

From the book

"Are you a glorious champion of the light, cherishing everything beautiful that stands against the shadow, a knight whose oath descends from traditions older than many of the gods? Or are you an embittered loner sworn to take vengeance on those who have done great evil, sent as an angel of death by the gods or driven by your need for revenge?*"

You can get the powers by 1- Oath to a cause, 2- Oath to a lord, 3- Oath to values, 4- Oath to a God.

But you are correct in the 3.5e or 4e.

[GrandMajora]

Siegdarth původně napsal:

The divine power of gods is obtained from faith.


The gods need people's faith to increase their power to go from a minor deity to a major one. So FAITH is the fuel of gods. It's like a circle, followers believe in a god and the god lend its power to a cleric to act his will and acquire more followers, so the god can get more power.

What 5e paladin does is having faith in own acts by following an oath. Oathbreakers also have powers, but they are based on faith in himself than on an oath.

From the book

"Are you a glorious champion of the light, cherishing everything beautiful that stands against the shadow, a knight whose oath descends from traditions older than many of the gods? Or are you an embittered loner sworn to take vengeance on those who have done great evil, sent as an angel of death by the gods or driven by your need for revenge?*"

You can get the powers by 1- Oath to a cause, 2- Oath to a lord, 3- Oath to values, 4- Oath to a God.

But you are correct in the 3.5e or 4e.

Faith is their fuel, but it is not the power itself. And faith only became important to them AFTER the Time of Troubles.

Ao punished the gods for acting like a bunch of unruly children, by making them dependent upon a constant supply of faith from mortals in order to sustain themselves.

Prior to the Time of Troubles, the gods had a limitless supply of power they could draw from. So they didn't care much about mortals, or fulfilling the duties required of their portfolios.

[Rando]

5E trash strikes again. Disgusting. Go back to 2E. Repent!

[Siegdarth]

GrandMajora původně napsal:

Siegdarth původně napsal:

The divine power of gods is obtained from faith.


The gods need people's faith to increase their power to go from a minor deity to a major one. So FAITH is the fuel of gods. It's like a circle, followers believe in a god and the god lend its power to a cleric to act his will and acquire more followers, so the god can get more power.

What 5e paladin does is having faith in own acts by following an oath. Oathbreakers also have powers, but they are based on faith in himself than on an oath.

From the book

"Are you a glorious champion of the light, cherishing everything beautiful that stands against the shadow, a knight whose oath descends from traditions older than many of the gods? Or are you an embittered loner sworn to take vengeance on those who have done great evil, sent as an angel of death by the gods or driven by your need for revenge?*"

You can get the powers by 1- Oath to a cause, 2- Oath to a lord, 3- Oath to values, 4- Oath to a God.

But you are correct in the 3.5e or 4e.

Faith is their fuel, but it is not the power itself. And faith only became important to them AFTER the Time of Troubles.

Ao punished the gods for acting like a bunch of unruly children, by making them dependent upon a constant supply of faith from mortals in order to sustain themselves.

Prior to the Time of Troubles, the gods had a limitless supply of power they could draw from. So they didn't care much about mortals, or fulfilling the duties required of their portfolios.

Yep.
So what this has to do with paladins in 5e? Since this was a 1e to 2e change.
Anyway chosing a deity to serve was never mandatory besides in 4e. You can even have a deity you believe but not serve it as a paladin. This is mostly used in videogames.

The point is: Paladins don't need a god to have their divine powers in 5e period.

[Wolfherz]

Why would paladins be on a diet?