Chromatic Orb & Surfaces

[Dr. Raven]

Just make it to how it works in 5e. 3d8 damage on every element and please no surfaces, it's unnecessary imo. This is supposed to be DnD not DOS.

EDIT: Just to clarify, most of the surfaces need to go not just because they're unnecessary but also because they don't work well with the DnD 5e system.
Surfaces can be good absolutely. IF. THEY'RE. USED. CORRECTLY.
The way Larian has implemented them here is just too much.
That's why they had to redo the cantrips during the first months of EA's release because many players complained it was too similar to DOS and didn't equate well to the system of 5e.

Surfaces 24/7 worked well in DOS because the system was built for it. DnD is not.
Unless Larian plans to spend an enormous amount of time rewriting the majority of 5e's ruleset to work with their design, it's just gonna be a constant problem.
It disrupts the game's balance and the basic platform it's built on. Spells become OP or UP, some spells become obsolete because of it. This is not needed.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by Metallicus:

It is a house rule set up by Larian. 5E allows for house rules.

Every edition allows for house rules. House rules are meant to be specific to a specific group and made through play and/or agreement. A game like this that is marketed towards a general audience shouldn't be making significant house rules. Larian should be making as few changes to the rules as possible because anyone familiar with 5e who sees this game is based on 5e would be entirely reasonable to expect skills, spells, and abilities work like they do RAW. I'm not saying that all changes are bad, just that changes to RAW should be used sparingly and only where coding or interface limits their ability to implement rules as they are in the book or where it is a commonly accepted house rule or rule that is listed as an optional variant in the source books.

That's one school of thought. But not the only one.

[Rance-sama]

5e wasn't originally intended to be a complete system played rules as written, it was designed to be a simple bare bones starting point that ppl could modify and add to.

[Cladeus]

Originally posted by Tinball:

Originally posted by Pumis:

The spell is useless in 5e. Also yes please more surfaces. Game would be boring it there was nothing to interact or plan for.

Is it useless because it requires a diamond worth 50gp?

It's actually broken in BG3 because they (Larian) allow you to cast it twice in one turn (with quicken spell). 6d8 damage at 1st level.

Wow sorcerer gets an action surge that costs 2 spell slots, 3 sorc points (that recharge on long rest as opposed to short rest) and 6d8 means NO surface effects and a single target.. so broken the sorc gets to do as much damage as the fighter for 1 turn.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Cladeus:

Originally posted by Tinball:

Is it useless because it requires a diamond worth 50gp?

It's actually broken in BG3 because they (Larian) allow you to cast it twice in one turn (with quicken spell). 6d8 damage at 1st level.

Wow sorcerer gets an action surge that costs 2 spell slots, 3 sorc points (that recharge on long rest as opposed to short rest) and 6d8 means NO surface effects and a single target.. so broken the sorc gets to do as much damage as the fighter for 1 turn.

You are forgeting alot of things... and the icing on the cake is that long rest is irrelevant in bg 3.

But i don't mind the spell that much, not really. Most things aren't balanced anyway be it RAw let alone in BG 3... so aslong as i have fun it's all good.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Cladeus:

Disagree, a spell slot for a tiny sheet of ice or whatever is fine. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's overpowered. Hide being a bonus action and wizard having access to every spell however.. that's different lol.

Higher level spells like Ice Wall and Fire Wall already cover that sort of thing. Larian tries to add surfaces to everything and it's annoying.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by FuNb0Y86:

Surfaces are great, but they should keep them to the spell combos like casting grease before a flame type spell. I think spells like Fireball can use a splash damage hazard, but limit the time that surface stays up as opposed to doing it with grease. I'm sure there are more examples of streamlining surfaces, but yeah, they should indeed make sense instead of piling on the hazards just because it's cool.

I think people are fine with combos that require setup and resources to achieve - like Grease + fire. I've never heard anyone complain that Grease is flammable, because it requires a spell and then you also need at least one more action to ignite it too, and then it only does a little extra fire damage.

The problem is when Larian constantly alters existing balance in things like cantrips or spells for no particularly good reason other than that they feel they must shoehorn surface effects into the game everywhere they can.

That's what needs to stop.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by Rance-sama:

5e wasn't originally intended to be a complete system played rules as written, it was designed to be a simple bare bones starting point that ppl could modify and add to.

Some people clearly don't want to modify a damn thing...
Like eating a piece of bread with nothing on it, every single day of their lives till death.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I think that the issue with surface effects is the non-discriminate way that Larian plasters them everywhere.

They CAN be fun and add an interesting twist to combat, or to traps/hazards in the dungeon, but I feel like Larian uses them far too frequently. Everywhere we go there's some kind of 'surface effect', and more often than not it's fire, and there's an explosive nearby...

[Cyrus]

i would not say that surfaces are OP, they harm you as much as the enemy if you use them wrongly. I never found a use for chromatic orb in my party because i use rushers to be close distances. For archers, maybe, i not played them yet.

[Chillearth]

I like the elemental synergies :

Earth (grease/oil) + Fire. Grease = slip, then damage (when fire added)
Water (for wet, not in itself a disadvantage), + Air (electricity) for double damage and shocked.

As it stands the grease/fire combo is actually fairly weak damage, compared to water/electric.

You don't like DOS, then maybe you don't like this. Me, I'm ok with it..........but then I don't have a particular hatred for barrels like pandariuskairos either - though having Wizards able to learn all spell scrolls - that IS a bridge too far for me.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by Tinball:

Is it useless because it requires a diamond worth 50gp?

It's actually broken in BG3 because they (Larian) allow you to cast it twice in one turn (with quicken spell). 6d8 damage at 1st level.

It's useless because it requires concentration and the damage isn't really worth it.
You can cast it twice in the 5E as well. Quicken spell casting is sorcerer feature, it doesn't make spell X broken. At best it makes sorcerer broken.

you actually can't cast it twice in 5e. You can only cast a second spell on a turn if it is a cantrip with a casting time of an action. Quickened spell doesn't change this; it only changes the casting time of a spell (like chromatic orb) to a bonus action, but the spell cast using your action must be a cantrip.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

With all of the surface effect synergies bleeding over from DoS, Chromatic Orb is one of the most potent 1st level offensive spells, often out damaging Magic Missile (depending upon how you're equipped and whether you're abusing elemental synergies).

Lightning Chromatic Orb + the Wet condition can quickly end most encounters. Throw in the new Lightning Charge equipment, the ring that make you immune to Electrocute, and the boots that Electrocute any water you stand in and you can easily decimate almost anything with Lightning damage.

On top of that, it's got high versatility with all of it's damage types, allowing you to fine tune it to each enemy, and when you just need a really big smackdown thunder is there for the extra damage die.

It's just too strong with all these effects.

[DaniMark70]

Why is this a problem?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by DaniMark70:

Why is this a problem?

Larian often ruins balance in this game by being too gung ho with surface effects and elemental interactions, to the point that combat feels silly and contrived and not balanced at all. It's gimmicky.

There's lots of instant one-shot kill switches in the game, elemental surfaces plastered all over the place, and additional surface effects shoehorned into spells that didn't have them before to try and force the game to play more like DoS than D&D.

Some of us are sick of it.

Surface effects are great when used sparingly. They should be the highlight of a particularly pernicious encounter, not "oh, ho hum, look, more fire! BOOM more explosions!" These things actually have more impact when used infrequently. Players should learn to fear the entire floor being on fire, instead of just shrugging it off.

Larian (and I guess Swen, assuming he's in charge of these kinds of decisions) just doesn't get this. Every time they make a change, it's inevitably to make the game feel more like DoS, so of course there's going to be pushback from those who want a more D&D 5e experience.

The other sin Larian constantly commits is the attempt to give players as many actions and bonus actions as they can so that it feels more like the DoS action point system. Why do you think Thieves get an extra bonus action (this isn't RAW), or they had that Helmet of Grit magic item in the game?

DoS is Larian's comfort zone, and they are loathe to step outside it. I keep trying to challenge them to let go of DoS and embrace D&D more. Some homebrew is good. I like the Shove bonus action, for example, and quaff potion as a bonus action is also good. And some elemental surface effects are also good, but they are overused.

[Wubbinz]

Shhhh. No one tell them that DnD 5E has surface effects already and Larian in one of the first few patches of the EA changed surface effects to function how they do in 5E. They'll need to find something else to be mad about if they find out so it needs to be our secret.