Greater weapon master or not...

[Wurtzel]

Hi guys, just wondering what the general thoughts are from those who have fighters in their party. On reaching level 4, do you take and keep the stats on offer or do you take the Greater Weapon Master feat?? I personally take the feat and have my cleric cast bless to off-set the negative minus 5 to hit.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Cunning action is an extra bonus action that can be used for dash, disengage, or hide. In addition to the normal bonus action all classes get. In BG3 it can seemingly be used for all normal bonus action traits making it far more powerful than it is in tabletop.

i don't know what game you're playing but it's definitely not in my game lol i mean anyone can hide as a bonus action... same as disengage. had to recheck if i wasn't going senile or something.

[wizard1200]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Feats in 5e do more than they do in 3.5, which is why you get access to less of them. Less fake choice bloat.

Good point, but many feats are also less interesting:

Great Weapon Master:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Before you make a melee attack with a heavy or versatile weapon held in two hands, that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.
Before you make a melee attack using your strength with a one-handed weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +5 to the attack’s damage.
The additional attack is great, but the bonus damage is useless in my opinion, because the attack penalty is too high. The feat would be more useful if the attack penalty would be reduced to 3 points and the attack would inflict (weapon dice) bonus damage (longsword: 1D8, greatsword: 2D6, ...).

[Sindira]

Originally posted by Wurtzel:

Hi guys, just wondering what the general thoughts are from those who have fighters in their party. On reaching level 4, do you take and keep the stats on offer or do you take the Greater Weapon Master feat?? I personally take the feat and have my cleric cast bless to off-set the negative minus 5 to hit.

You really don't need good stats for a strong character, they just help with hit chance which isn't nothing but if you really want a functioning heroic character, pick feats.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by wizard1200:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Feats in 5e do more than they do in 3.5, which is why you get access to less of them. Less fake choice bloat.

Good point, but many feats are also less interesting:

Power attack:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Before you make a melee attack with a heavy or versatile weapon held in two hands, that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.
Before you make a melee attack using your strength with a one-handed weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +5 to the attack’s damage.
The additional attack is great, but the bonus damage is useless in my opinion, because the attack penalty is too high. The feat would be more useful if the attack penalty would be reduced to 3 points and the attack would inflict (weapon dice) bonus damage (longsword: 1D8, greatsword: 2D6, ...).

This is the combination of 3.5's powerattack and 3.5's cleave feats. In 3.5 it was required to get the feat Powerattack to acquire the feat cleave. So it combines two of 3.5's feats into one.

[wizard1200]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

This is the combination of 3.5's powerattack and 3.5's cleave feats. In 3.5 it was required to get the feat Powerattack to acquire the feat cleave. So it combines two of 3.5's feats into one.

Yep, but you could select the penalty of Power Attack in D&D 3.5, which made the feat less situational.

Defensive Duelist:
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC for that attack, potentially causing the attack to miss you.
The feat is great if an enemy has only one attack per turn, but gets much weaker if it has two or more attacks per turn or multiple enemies attack you. The feat would be more useful if it would work against all attacks during a turn, but the AC bonus is reduced by (number of attacks) - 1.

[dolby]

Originally posted by wizard1200:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

This is the combination of 3.5's powerattack and 3.5's cleave feats. In 3.5 it was required to get the feat Powerattack to acquire the feat cleave. So it combines two of 3.5's feats into one.

Yep, but you could select the penalty of Power Attack in D&D 3.5, which made the feat less situational.

Defensive Duelist:
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC for that attack, potentially causing the attack to miss you.
The feat is great if an enemy has only one attack per turn, but gets much weaker if it has two or more attacks per turn or multiple enemies attack you. The feat would be more useful if it would work against all attacks during a turn, but the AC bonus is reduced by (number of attacks) - 1.

Yep it's not the same thing at all... The problem with feats was always the balance and the limited number of times you get it. And they made this problem bigger in 5e. At least in my opinion. Yes 3.5 had feats like Ranged attack into melee problems and stuff everyone needed that, if they wanted to do ranged combat ( it was just stupid not to take it) made it pointless in short again balance nothing really changed there.

You should get a feat every level period!! Now balance that and you got a fun game.
You can even split feats into minor abilities and mayor talents you get to pick minor at every lever and at level 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, or 18 you get a major one and every second level you add one 1 to any one stats. i mean it's not rocket science.

This way you actually get the feeling you are developing your skills and talents and character as a whole... Then comes 5e and all you do is click next for half of the time at level up...for some classes. How is that fun? It's like Leveling for dummies or something.

The other option would just get skill points on level up that you can use to learn stuff from real world interaction works just as well if not better.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

This is the combination of 3.5's powerattack and 3.5's cleave feats. In 3.5 it was required to get the feat Powerattack to acquire the feat cleave. So it combines two of 3.5's feats into one.

And that improves things how ? You get less feats so you're at the same problem as before and to top it off you get to sacrifice the stats points again the thing that makes you feel like you are improving as a character. So how did they fix anything with that example is beyond me. Apart of making it more dumb..

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

This is the combination of 3.5's powerattack and 3.5's cleave feats. In 3.5 it was required to get the feat Powerattack to acquire the feat cleave. So it combines two of 3.5's feats into one.

And that improves things how ? You get less feats so you're at the same problem as before and to top it off you get to sacrifice the stats points again the thing that makes you feel like you are improving as a character. So how did they fix anything with that example is beyond me. Apart of making it more dumb..

It improves things by giving you a feat PACKAGE, which is more impactful than an individual feat.

Skirmisher gives you the feats "Mobility" and "Spring attack"
Great weapon master gives you "Power attack" and "Cleave"
Two weapon fighting feat gives you "Two Weapon Defense" and "Two weapon fighting" and "Ambidexterity" (Essentially since it lets you use larger weapons with no offhand penalty)

in 5e 20 is the MAXIMUM base value of your stats. So raising your stats has a smaller impact because there's a hard cap on it.

I honestly can't possibly fathom how you can see a feat package and NOT see how it makes you stronger.

Just look at Sentinel:
• Whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, its speed drops to 0 for the rest of the turn. This stops any movement they may have been taking.

• Creatures within your reach provoke opportunity attacks even if they took the Disengage action.

• When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.



ALL THAT for the cost of ONE FEAT. That would be like... 3 feats in 3.5 and would take you 9 levels to get

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by wizard1200:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Feats in 5e do more than they do in 3.5, which is why you get access to less of them. Less fake choice bloat.

Good point, but many feats are also less interesting:

Great Weapon Master:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Before you make a melee attack with a heavy or versatile weapon held in two hands, that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.
Before you make a melee attack using your strength with a one-handed weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +5 to the attack’s damage.
The additional attack is great, but the bonus damage is useless in my opinion, because the attack penalty is too high. The feat would be more useful if the attack penalty would be reduced to 3 points and the attack would inflict (weapon dice) bonus damage (longsword: 1D8, greatsword: 2D6, ...).

The bonus damage is useless... because the attack reduction? you add 10 to the damage by the way, not 5

There are SEVERAL ways of getting past this. The bless spell from a cleric, oil of sharpness, attacking with advantage. Power attack (that portion of the feat's nickname) is arguably one of the best feats for a fighter or barbarian. Especially because it works with the Cleave ability off greatswords. you can hit EVERYONE with it.

[wizard1200]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Just look at Sentinel:
• Whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, its speed drops to 0 for the rest of the turn. This stops any movement they may have been taking.
• Creatures within your reach provoke opportunity attacks even if they took the Disengage action.
• When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Yep, Sentinel is an amazing feat, but sadly not all feats have the same power level.

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

The bonus damage is useless... because the attack reduction? you add 10 to the damage by the way, not 5

Exactly! Because a to-hit reduction of 25 % makes it more likely to inflict no damage at all. You add 5 points of damage with one-handed weapons and 10 points of damage with two-handed weapons.

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by wizard1200:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Just look at Sentinel:
• Whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, its speed drops to 0 for the rest of the turn. This stops any movement they may have been taking.
• Creatures within your reach provoke opportunity attacks even if they took the Disengage action.
• When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Yep, Sentinel is an amazing feat, but sadly not all feats have the same power level.

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

The bonus damage is useless... because the attack reduction? you add 10 to the damage by the way, not 5

Exactly! Because a to-hit reduction of 25 % makes it more likely to inflict no damage at all. You add 5 points of damage with one-handed weapons and 10 points of damage with two-handed weapons.

Yes, and there are MANY MANY ways of getting past the -5 to attack.

Potions of strength, Bless scrolls or a cleric, Oil of sharpness, Attacking with advantage.

With a 1 handed weapon adding +5 damage could be situational, but adding +10 with a 2handed weapon makes it a net overall GAIN of damage even with the miss chance

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Yes, and there are MANY MANY ways of getting past the -5 to attack.

Potions of strength, Bless scrolls or a cleric, Oil of sharpness, Attacking with advantage.

With a 1 handed weapon adding +5 damage could be situational, but adding +10 with a 2handed weapon makes it a net overall GAIN of damage even with the miss chance

There's also the part where you literally can't use the Power Attack feature of GWM with one-handed weapons. Heavy weapons only, and those are all two-handed, so the point is moot. Conflating how the feature works between different editions doesn't help.

[dolby]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

...

i never said i had a problems with feats as in what they do in 5e. i do have a problem with how you get them though big difference or lack of them. 5k of people who downloaded the mod that gives you more feats think the same.. 3 extra talents at best for 100+ hrs...Thank god they are letting us get talents in game world as well..

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Yes, and there are MANY MANY ways of getting past the -5 to attack.

Potions of strength, Bless scrolls or a cleric, Oil of sharpness, Attacking with advantage.

With a 1 handed weapon adding +5 damage could be situational, but adding +10 with a 2handed weapon makes it a net overall GAIN of damage even with the miss chance

There's also the part where you literally can't use the Power Attack feature of GWM with one-handed weapons. Heavy weapons only, and those are all two-handed, so the point is moot. Conflating how the feature works between different editions doesn't help.

you may have quoted the wrong person on that. I was the one suggesting two handed weapons, I assumed Wizard knew something about how it functions in BG3 that I didn't. It's entirely possible it DOES allow 1-handed use in BG3 though, I'll have to check later

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

There's also the part where you literally can't use the Power Attack feature of GWM with one-handed weapons. Heavy weapons only, and those are all two-handed, so the point is moot. Conflating how the feature works between different editions doesn't help.

you may have quoted the wrong person on that. I was the one suggesting two handed weapons, I assumed Wizard knew something about how it functions in BG3 that I didn't. It's entirely possible it DOES allow 1-handed use in BG3 though, I'll have to check later

According to the Fextralife wiki, it does not. They tend to be on the ball with keeping things up-to-date. I have no idea where they're getting the -5 attack for +5 damage with one-handed weapons from.

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Great+Weapon+Master