Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

View Stats:
master1147 Nov 5, 2020 @ 10:03am
Is playing a drow tantamount to suicide?
As with every one of my GMs told me, if I decide to play a drow female, will every surfacer I run into yell and scream "It's a evil drow! Kill it!!!"
Last edited by master1147; Nov 5, 2020 @ 10:05am
Originally posted by War Maiden:
I see we have resurrected this thread, so be it.

Well, so far in the game, playing a drow (as is most of my characters i've played in BG3 so far) have not had such a harsh time matriculating in what we have of Act I. That may be because my drow is female (any typically a Lloth sworn or Seldarine Selune sworn), and they are more feared on the surface than drow males are (due to their 'reputation', which is not true of all drow females except those from Lloth's cultic cities).

The races we meet in what we have of Act I seem much more tolerant, especially since I (we) came to their aid at the Grove Gate battle. I am sure it helped in regard to having Zevlor vouch for us with the tieflings (not like they don't have their own level of discrimination to deal with so they kinda understand), and considering the new First Druid wanted an audience with her (and seems to like to imitate how she believes a Matron Mother would act when we meet), so it could be considered situational for now. The gobbies and those under the sway of the Absolute will also be more tame to drow considering one of them is their leader, so it makes sense to see the tolerance level in what we have of Act I. I am really curious how they will handle a drow, much less a female, further on.


Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by War Maiden:

That would be incredibly stupid, its like saying that only a mage Drow or Cleric Drow can transverse the surface due to the 'hide every feature about yourself' spell. I understand most folks believe Drow are just evil zealots, but not all are as such. Thats like saying, we should kill all humans, because they have the potential to kill. Can AND Do is a major difference.

It's not a matter of whether or not Drow have the capacity to be good, it's about the lore of the setting depicting at least 85% of the global Drow population as being unappologetically evil.

Over the course of their history, the Drow have built up such a notorious reputation for themselves within the Forgotten Realms, that nobody is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. If you see a Drow, you either run as fast as you can, or you kill it on sight.

As for only casters being able to wander around in public, that's not strictly true. Apparently, if you wear helmets or similar head gear, it functions as a 'mask' to conceal your character's true identity. So even the non magic casters will have a means of going around incognito among the surface races.

Considering how long drow typically live (mostly females, pet solder males and 'leashed' mages) it is hard to change people's mindset when they have such low INT to begin with, as we see in real life that people whom do not think for themselves get swept up in the zealous beliefs of others whom 'inspire them'.

As for surface fighting, the most one will find is the surfacers running away, if that is the basis of their reaction being fight or flight. I am sure there has been the random group whom thought they could overtake a drow or two in battle topside, but considering drow do not play fair (especially with their paralyze poison coated blades and arrows) the below 9 STR commoner group would die relatively quickly as they have has a great many years to perfect their battle prowess.
< >
Showing 46-60 of 61 comments
War Maiden Nov 8, 2020 @ 4:43pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Upon retrospect, does anybody else think Lolth's hatred for males might stem from the fact she failed to overthrow her husband as leader of the Elven gods, and now she's taking her frustrations out upon all the men among her followers?

You are spot on. But do you think the Queen cares for such truths, She cares for her control over her subjects, not the reasons why she can or the history behind them. Power is manifested and projected because those without cannot stop them.
mikeddeacon Oct 12, 2022 @ 10:41pm 
Playing a drow DOES affect how the game is played.

One example: Byrnna and Andrick are watching their master ,Elowin, slowly die (Owlbear quest).

I have done this mission with other races; but I cannot even get the CHANCE to start this mission, because as soon as my drow fighter shows up, they automatically attack me.

So, yeah, playing a drow has its downsides.
Nefelia Oct 12, 2022 @ 11:03pm 
Originally posted by War Maiden:
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Larian has already stated Drow will be required to hide their faces on the surface world, due to their race's reputation.

That would be incredibly stupid, its like saying that only a mage Drow or Cleric Drow can transverse the surface due to the 'hide every feature about yourself' spell. I understand most folks believe Drow are just evil zealots, but not all are as such. Thats like saying, we should kill all humans, because they have the potential to kill. Can AND Do is a major difference.

That's the setting. Most drow are raised in a deeply evil society, and are therefore evil. Most surface dwellers who do encounter drow will only encounter the evil drow - likely via raids or other less-than-pleasant situations. The overhwlming majority of surface-dwellers will never encounter drow, but will have heard the tales of drow raids, drow attacks, drow criminal behaviour, etc. As such, most surface dwellers will respond to drow with racial discrimination.

Faerun is not an enlightened utopia, nor should it be.
GrandMajora Oct 13, 2022 @ 5:25am 
Originally posted by War Maiden:

That would be incredibly stupid, its like saying that only a mage Drow or Cleric Drow can transverse the surface due to the 'hide every feature about yourself' spell. I understand most folks believe Drow are just evil zealots, but not all are as such. Thats like saying, we should kill all humans, because they have the potential to kill. Can AND Do is a major difference.

It's not a matter of whether or not Drow have the capacity to be good, it's about the lore of the setting depicting at least 85% of the global Drow population as being unappologetically evil.

Over the course of their history, the Drow have built up such a notorious reputation for themselves within the Forgotten Realms, that nobody is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. If you see a Drow, you either run as fast as you can, or you kill it on sight.

As for only casters being able to wander around in public, that's not strictly true. Apparently, if you wear helmets or similar head gear, it functions as a 'mask' to conceal your character's true identity. So even the non magic casters will have a means of going around incognito among the surface races.
Malaficus Shaikan Oct 13, 2022 @ 5:40am 
Drow have a well earned reputation as slaver's.
A drow will be threated with distrust simply because it is a drow.
That said most arent sucide to attack a well armed and armored adventurer.

Dwarves got a reputation for being drunks.
Meeting a dwarf that doesnt drink is even more rare then a good alignt drow.
It happends but it is rare and people will start at the wierd thing infront of them before reminding themselves it rude to stare.

Just because 95% of a race is something doesnt mean the remaining 5% is.
GrandMajora Oct 13, 2022 @ 5:48am 
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Drow have a well earned reputation as slaver's.
A drow will be threated with distrust simply because it is a drow.
That said most arent sucide to attack a well armed and armored adventurer.

Dwarves got a reputation for being drunks.
Meeting a dwarf that doesnt drink is even more rare then a good alignt drow.
It happends but it is rare and people will start at the wierd thing infront of them before reminding themselves it rude to stare.

Just because 95% of a race is something doesnt mean the remaining 5% is.

Remember when you meet Viconia in BG2, she states that all she was doing was passing through town, when one of the citizens guessed her identify under her hood. Not long afterward, she's tied to a stake outside the prison, with an angry mob ready to burn her alive.

People Hate Drow; and if you want to play as a Drow, you're gonna have to learn to deal with it.
Malaficus Shaikan Oct 13, 2022 @ 5:53am 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Remember when you meet Viconia in BG2, she states that all she was doing was passing through town, when one of the citizens guessed her identify under her hood. Not long afterward, she's tied to a stake outside the prison, with an angry mob ready to burn her alive.

People Hate Drow; and if you want to play as a Drow, you're gonna have to learn to deal with it.
And with good reason.
There are race of slavers and argueable the only kind of Elf my players respect.

Anyone who thinks drow in the forgotten realms arent hated clearly hasnt read anything about them.

Tho if what i hear about D&D one/6e is true then there reconning the drow.
I hope not.
There cool(in a i love to hate them kind of way)
Last edited by Malaficus Shaikan; Oct 13, 2022 @ 5:57am
GrandMajora Oct 13, 2022 @ 6:01am 
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Tho if what i hear about D&D one/6e there reconning the drow.
I hope now.
There cool(in a i love to hate them kind of way)

In terms of retcons, they've already decided to remove the existence of subraces as being distinct breeds, and instead made them into a cultural thing. Last time I checked up on One D&D, there are no mechanical difference between Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf and Duergar now. They're all considered to be the same race, but have different cultures from each other.

In other words, I think WotC has decided to lean (more like swerve directly into) the new premise about 'race theory' being a social construct devised by pseudo scientists.

It's a change to the system that I'm personally not happy with. But thankfully, it's only play test material at this time.
Last edited by GrandMajora; Oct 13, 2022 @ 6:10am
Malaficus Shaikan Oct 13, 2022 @ 6:03am 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
And with good reason.
There are race of slavers and argueable the only kind of Elf my players respect.

Anyone who thinks drow in the forgotten realms arent hate clearly hasnt read anything about them.

Tho if what i hear about D&D one/6e there reconning the drow.
I hope now.
There cool(in a i love to hate them kind of way)

In terms of retcons, they've already decided to remove the existence of subraces as being distinct breeds, and instead made them into a cultural thing. Last time I checked up on One D&D, there are no mechanical difference between Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf and Duergar now. They're all considered to be the same race, but have different cultures from each other.

In other words, I think WotC has decided to lean (more like swerve directly into) the new premise about 'race theory' being a social construct devised by pseudo scientists.

It's a change to the system that I'm personally not happy with. But thankfully, it's only play test material at this time.
Yeah i didnt eleborate to avoid being banned but i for one have no intent to getting D&D one.
Last edited by Malaficus Shaikan; Oct 13, 2022 @ 6:03am
Ghost Oct 13, 2022 @ 7:59am 
Originally posted by War Maiden:
One thing I have noticed in my limited time playing this game is there has yet to be called out the gender of the Drow in dialogues.
-snip-

When you're in the Underdark you get to push all the males (assuming they live long enough to talk to you) and 'lesser' races around such as the duergar and deep gnomes.

An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htZoHwpzZg4
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
War Maiden Oct 13, 2022 @ 9:42am 
I see we have resurrected this thread, so be it.

Well, so far in the game, playing a drow (as is most of my characters i've played in BG3 so far) have not had such a harsh time matriculating in what we have of Act I. That may be because my drow is female (any typically a Lloth sworn or Seldarine Selune sworn), and they are more feared on the surface than drow males are (due to their 'reputation', which is not true of all drow females except those from Lloth's cultic cities).

The races we meet in what we have of Act I seem much more tolerant, especially since I (we) came to their aid at the Grove Gate battle. I am sure it helped in regard to having Zevlor vouch for us with the tieflings (not like they don't have their own level of discrimination to deal with so they kinda understand), and considering the new First Druid wanted an audience with her (and seems to like to imitate how she believes a Matron Mother would act when we meet), so it could be considered situational for now. The gobbies and those under the sway of the Absolute will also be more tame to drow considering one of them is their leader, so it makes sense to see the tolerance level in what we have of Act I. I am really curious how they will handle a drow, much less a female, further on.


Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by War Maiden:

That would be incredibly stupid, its like saying that only a mage Drow or Cleric Drow can transverse the surface due to the 'hide every feature about yourself' spell. I understand most folks believe Drow are just evil zealots, but not all are as such. Thats like saying, we should kill all humans, because they have the potential to kill. Can AND Do is a major difference.

It's not a matter of whether or not Drow have the capacity to be good, it's about the lore of the setting depicting at least 85% of the global Drow population as being unappologetically evil.

Over the course of their history, the Drow have built up such a notorious reputation for themselves within the Forgotten Realms, that nobody is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. If you see a Drow, you either run as fast as you can, or you kill it on sight.

As for only casters being able to wander around in public, that's not strictly true. Apparently, if you wear helmets or similar head gear, it functions as a 'mask' to conceal your character's true identity. So even the non magic casters will have a means of going around incognito among the surface races.

Considering how long drow typically live (mostly females, pet solder males and 'leashed' mages) it is hard to change people's mindset when they have such low INT to begin with, as we see in real life that people whom do not think for themselves get swept up in the zealous beliefs of others whom 'inspire them'.

As for surface fighting, the most one will find is the surfacers running away, if that is the basis of their reaction being fight or flight. I am sure there has been the random group whom thought they could overtake a drow or two in battle topside, but considering drow do not play fair (especially with their paralyze poison coated blades and arrows) the below 9 STR commoner group would die relatively quickly as they have has a great many years to perfect their battle prowess.
Last edited by War Maiden; Oct 13, 2022 @ 9:43am
GrandMajora Oct 13, 2022 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by War Maiden:
I see we have resurrected this thread, so be it.

Well, so far in the game, playing a drow (as is most of my characters i've played in BG3 so far) have not had such a harsh time matriculating in what we have of Act I. That may be because my drow is female (any typically a Lloth sworn or Seldarine Selune sworn), and they are more feared on the surface than drow males are (due to their 'reputation', which is not true of all drow females except those from Lloth's cultic cities).

Once again, it's not a question of whether or not a Drow can be good, it's a question about how so few of them actually are. If you want to play as a good Drow, you're perfectly free to do so.

However, most people in the game are not going to just assume that you must be one of the good ones. Quite the opposite, as they will assume you must be there to wreak some manner of havoc upon their society.

If you are playing as a Drow, there are several instances in the game where this is made immediately apparent. For example, when you find Lae'zel trapped in the cage, the two Tieflings will immediately prepare for a fight as soon as they see you. The only way to avoid a confrontation with them is to use intimidation to scare them off. Even Seldarine Drow get this kind of response.

When you first try to enter the inner section of the grove, the druid specifically references your race, saying "We won't tolerate Drow in here!" something which she doesn't do for any other race.

The goblins pretty much give you free run of the place, as they're too terrified of what you might do to them, to try and start trouble.

The Mychonids in the Underdark are even more suspicious of your intentions when you first arrive, then they are from surface races.

If you're not hiding your face, Zevlor even comments that "you're very brave to walk around without hiding your identity."

Again, in BG 2, Viconia was only walking through town, and when one of the local men guessed she was a drow, it summoned an angry mob who were ready to burn her at the stake.

Not only that, but if you get her to reveal her backstory, she reveals that a local farm boy pretended to become her friend, only to later betray her and lead her into a trap, where he and his friends took turns having their way with her.

People. Hate. Drow.
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by War Maiden:
I see we have resurrected this thread, so be it.

Well, so far in the game, playing a drow (as is most of my characters i've played in BG3 so far) have not had such a harsh time matriculating in what we have of Act I. That may be because my drow is female (any typically a Lloth sworn or Seldarine Selune sworn), and they are more feared on the surface than drow males are (due to their 'reputation', which is not true of all drow females except those from Lloth's cultic cities).

Once again, it's not a question of whether or not a Drow can be good, it's a question about how so few of them actually are. If you want to play as a good Drow, you're perfectly free to do so.

However, most people in the game are not going to just assume that you must be one of the good ones. Quite the opposite, as they will assume you must be there to wreak some manner of havoc upon their society.

If you are playing as a Drow, there are several instances in the game where this is made immediately apparent. For example, when you find Lae'zel trapped in the cage, the two Tieflings will immediately prepare for a fight as soon as they see you. The only way to avoid a confrontation with them is to use intimidation to scare them off. Even Seldarine Drow get this kind of response.

When you first try to enter the inner section of the grove, the druid specifically references your race, saying "We won't tolerate Drow in here!" something which she doesn't do for any other race.

The goblins pretty much give you free run of the place, as they're too terrified of what you might do to them, to try and start trouble.

The Mychonids in the Underdark are even more suspicious of your intentions when you first arrive, then they are from surface races.

If you're not hiding your face, Zevlor even comments that "you're very brave to walk around without hiding your identity."

Again, in BG 2, Viconia was only walking through town, and when one of the local men guessed she was a drow, it summoned an angry mob who were ready to burn her at the stake.

Not only that, but if you get her to reveal her backstory, she reveals that a local farm boy pretended to become her friend, only to later betray her and lead her into a trap, where he and his friends took turns having their way with her.

People. Hate. Drow.

^This. Society suffers from this thing called hope syndrome. That so long as one person has hope then we may as well just assume it's all going to go according to plan to help us sleep better at night. In a quote from Dumb and Dumber "So you're saying there's a chance" regardless of the fact the % chance is close enough to be no chance at all.

You don't take the vast minority and make that viewpoint the overarching view despite what our own society loves to try and do.

Do Drow have the capacity for good? Sure. But regardless as players we who know the rule set know that you can, in fact, play anything no matter what the alignment is or what is considered the norm for a race, etc. as you see fit and the DM allows for it. But having the capacity for good does not mean an inclination for it particularly so when you consider they are psychologically manipulated and institutionalized not long after birth and for those that manage to break away from a way of life that is so systemic and deeply embedded that it's almost innate then they have to look forward to being hunted down and killed for their new found sense of freedom.

The current changes speak to about 15% of the population being non-evil but cites the vast majority of those are either chaotic neutral or lawful neutral. So needless to say finding a Good Drow would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Societies particularly human ones (and definitely influenced by the time period in which you using to create their world view...i.e. if you created it based on medieval times vs. modern there will definitely be a difference) tend to be (majority) xenophobic and suspicious at best and outright violent toward things not like themselves at worst. They also tend to be ruled by perception rather than actually taking the time to figure out facts.

So it should be easy for anyone to conclude that a human city is generally speaking not going to look favorably (and that is putting it mildly) upon any Drow entering their community regardless of their background. Likewise the likelihood of a Drow walking into a human city let alone a good one is....well...probably an event that tales would be told of in taverns for some time just to highlight the extreme rarity of such an event.

People can dream all they want and create worlds where everything looks rosy and beautiful and people are always accepting, etc. You can literally create a D&D world that is just that and hey that would be awesome. I, however, look at the lore and history of D&D and what went into the creation of the races and the general sentiment of the mindsets different cultures have had and see them more of a reflection of our own societies and anyone that wants to refute that by claiming we shouldn't use real life to influence D&D it's too late. It was already done at the onset first off and secondly then I'd say stop making races that mirror human beings in both look and feel which we continue to do more and more of as D&D '(d)evolves'

Drow are as innately evil as you can get as they are not given a choice (despite having the capacity for change which leads to the potential possibility of exceptions) to be otherwise like many races. That is a great thing for a few reasons the first being that what is wonderful about the imagination is to imagine situations that are completely different from ourselves and our way of thinking. Two it creates opposing thoughts and ideas both within ourselves and for the characters we play or the worlds we built and play within. Lastly it let's ones mind drift to wonder if the impossible could be possible. We don't know what we don't know. Something out there could breathe something other than oxygen. Something out there could be inherently evil.... why not play that out rather than trying to box everything into only what we ourselves can or want to understand from our limited human perspectives.

Drow of the Underdark. Read it. Gain some perspective around the lore before ignorance tries to erase and retcon it.
Last edited by Vixziค็็็็็n; Oct 13, 2022 @ 1:14pm
GrandMajora Oct 13, 2022 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by Vixzian:
Societies particularly human ones (and definitely influenced by the time period in which you using to create their world view...i.e. if you created it based on medieval times vs. modern there will definitely be a difference) tend to be (majority) xenophobic and suspicious at best and outright violent toward things not like themselves at worst. They also tend to be ruled by perception rather than actually taking the time to figure out facts.

There's also the fact that Faerun takes place on a different planet, inside an entirely separate universe from the one which we exist in. The various settings of D&D (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Greyhawk, est) are separated into something called 'crystal spheres' which are connected via the astral sea.

And the world which we live in has one of these crystal spheres. Meaning that although our world does canonically exist within the D&D cosmology, it is separated from the rest of the setting by cosmic barriers which are almost impossible to penetrate.

Of course, this also means that it is canonically possible to be isekaied into D&D, as was the case when many real life deities (Norse, Greeks, Egyptians, est) found themselves transported into the game for a while.
Dusty! Oct 14, 2022 @ 10:42am 
Female Drow and fertile with the other sentient races. Further, their society is not as omnipotent as their desire, and their ranks would have salty defectors and unlinked peasants.

A field fort under siege by goblins would obviously be very racist towards Drow, but not to the extent you think. As an example, Hitler was allowed to serve in the German army as a non citizen. Why? Because the worst spies aren't enlisting to serve as a private on the frontlines.

Drow would be treated the same way the demon spawn are, poorly, but they would still be used as manpower.

There are examples of history of simple spying allowing armies to infiltrate areas. But the problem is never the spying, rather it was the vulnerability that shouldn't have existed.

Racism does have many historical benefits, but likewise, not in the way you think. For instance, the Chzek didn't have the option to not trust the Magyars, and the Byzantines did not have the option to not trust the Bulgars, and the Romans the Germans. They were always straight up invasions disguised as immigration, with the issue being the invasion, not the race.
Last edited by Dusty!; Oct 14, 2022 @ 10:48am
< >
Showing 46-60 of 61 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Nov 5, 2020 @ 10:03am
Posts: 61