41.78 calorie change is destroying game. walking takes more calories than running?

[DreadLordNaf]

Never in my years of playing have I had a problem maintaining weight, until this last patch. My char was going under fed status fast even when stuffing his face with hohos and chicken and I couldnt figure why until I saw someone did a test of the calories burned for 41.78.

In summary, walking now burns calories 5x faster than in 41.73 and if you measure how many calories to go a certain distance, then walking actually takes 10% more calories than running the same distance, wtf? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZl5O7ZdoKc

If you play normal settings with ♥♥♥♥ tons of canned food then this prob doesnt affect you. But if you like rare loot challenge games this change makes no sense. It means you can keep your char's stomach full, yet still be starving and losing weight, and yet not able to eat more since again, you are already full. While at the same time there is almost no way foraging can be beneficial now for food, you will burn more calories walking around than you will gain with food since walking now apparently takes the same energy as running/sprinting.

I hope they fix this, and in the meantime if anyone knows a mod I can adjust to put back like 41.73 was I would be appreciative.

[Shurenai]

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

Diposting pertama kali oleh EnigmaGrey:

That … doesn’t make any sense.

If you only walk the equivalent of 1 mile, you’re not going to be constantly walking for 16 hours.

Unless you literally set your game time for 1 in-game day to equal 24 real life hours, it makes perfect sense.

The default setting is 24 hours = 1 real hour. Your character absolutely does not walk much over a mile in real distance in 16 game hours.

O_o the ♥♥♥♥, hell yes you walk more than a mile in 16 game hours. In 4 days you can walk to every major city.

1600 meters to a mile, Even if you walk just 1m/s, That means you're walking at least 1.5 miles in 16 game hours. Pretty sure walking speed is over 1m/s though. Closer to 2 or 3m/s I think.

And as noted previously, That's assuming you're doing nothing but walking for 40 straight irl minutes. Which is highly doubtful.

Diposting pertama kali oleh DreadLordNaf:

Diposting pertama kali oleh EnigmaGrey:

Somehow burning more calories walking doesn’t make sense given the math, anyway.

Yes it does. You spend 40% less calories by walking, but you get from point A to B 40% faster approx by running and spend less time burning calories. See the video I posted at 2 mins 15 seconds. Over the same distance it takes him 22 calories to run across his yard but 24 calories to walk the same distance. <-- This is what Im talking about. Regardless the larger debate on calorie balance, this shouldnt be a thing and it messes up a lot by having it be so.

Yeah, but, Over the course of the day that doesn't add up that much. It's odd; But it's not the difference between you starving to death and not. How many times are you realistically doing that walking distance in a day while lingering at base? If your base is laid out even half decently, maybe 25 times if you want to be generous- So you consume a whopping... 50 more calories than running. Eat a head of lettuce and you've offset that and gained +4 calories than that cost.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

Unless you literally set your game time for 1 in-game day to equal 24 real life hours, it makes perfect sense.

The default setting is 24 hours = 1 real hour. Your character absolutely does not walk much over a mile in real distance in 16 game hours.

O_o the ♥♥♥♥, hell yes you walk more than a mile in 16 game hours. In 4 days you can walk to every major city.

1600 meters to a mile, Even if you walk just 1m/s, That means you're walking at least 1.5 miles in 16 game hours. Pretty sure walking speed is over 1m/s though. Closer to 2 or 3m/s I think.

And as noted previously, That's assuming you're doing nothing but walking for 40 straight irl minutes. Which is highly doubtful.

Did you really just say only 1 metre per second? That would be either a ludicrously long stride or two steps every second. People don't walk like that. As for 1.5 miles in 16 hours, that is why I said "your character doesn't walk much over 1 mile". I've never seen somebody react that incredulously over what amounts to at worst a trivial discrepancy and at best, an agreement.

What the ♥♥♥♥ is wrong with the people on this forum?

[DreadLordNaf]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

Diposting pertama kali oleh DreadLordNaf:

Yes it does. You spend 40% less calories by walking, but you get from point A to B 40% faster approx by running and spend less time burning calories. See the video I posted at 2 mins 15 seconds. Over the same distance it takes him 22 calories to run across his yard but 24 calories to walk the same distance. <-- This is what Im talking about. Regardless the larger debate on calorie balance, this shouldnt be a thing and it messes up a lot by having it be so.

Yeah, but, Over the course of the day that doesn't add up that much. It's odd; But it's not the difference between you starving to death and not. How many times are you realistically doing that walking distance in a day while lingering at base? If your base is laid out even half decently, maybe 25 times if you want to be generous- So you consume a whopping... 50 more calories than running. Eat a head of lettuce and you've offset that and gained +4 calories than that cost.

Yeah but the fact that you acknowledge it's broken is my point. Jogging to save calories and "gain weight" compared to walking is the most illogical and counter intuitive thing ever, regardless of how you can compensate for it. And as we've described if you enjoy challenge games where there isnt chips and butter galore everywhere, it forces you into a more grindy narrow playstyle, that is neither more challenging or more fun which was always the big draw points of PZ.

And also it is kiling my char. Im still living off of plentiful canned food, but because the hunger and calorie mechanic are disconnected, you arent allowed to actually eat enough to meet your burned calories.

[Shady Allie]

Hi everyone! People are just people. There is no changing that.

Game code can be changed. If the devs do not tweak the calorie code, you can.

[DreadLordNaf]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shady Allie:

Hi everyone! People are just people. There is no changing that.

Game code can be changed. If the devs do not tweak the calorie code, you can.

Yup I agree. It's just odd that we have mathematical proof that they messed up and made the calorie burn rate totally illogical so that you get fatter by running compared to walking, there is video proof of someone testing to verify it is in fact that way, everyone agrees that its that way, yet people will still defend the botched decision no matter what. I guess as usual will be up to modders to fix things in the meantime until devs do.

[Shurenai]

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

O_o the ♥♥♥♥, hell yes you walk more than a mile in 16 game hours. In 4 days you can walk to every major city.

1600 meters to a mile, Even if you walk just 1m/s, That means you're walking at least 1.5 miles in 16 game hours. Pretty sure walking speed is over 1m/s though. Closer to 2 or 3m/s I think.

And as noted previously, That's assuming you're doing nothing but walking for 40 straight irl minutes. Which is highly doubtful.

Did you really just say only 1 metre per second? That would be either a ludicrously long stride or two steps every second. People don't walk like that. As for 1.5 miles in 16 hours, that is why I said "your character doesn't walk much over 1 mile". I've never seen somebody react that incredulously over what amounts to at worst a trivial discrepancy and at best, an agreement.

What the ♥♥♥♥ is wrong with the people on this forum?

Average human walking speed is 3~mph, translates to 1.34m/s. Google says 1.42m/s.
So yes, ONLY 1m/s. We're now at 2+ miles traveled; a 100% increase from 1 mile, which I would argue is more than 'not much over 1 mile'. And again, I'm pretty sure in game walking speed is closer to 2+m/s

Diposting pertama kali oleh EnigmaGrey:

Probably just meant step length. Mine’s a meter when doing 5-6 kmph.

No. I meant actual speed with the 1/ms used in the example. Using your provided speed, 5kmph=1.38m/s. 6kmph=1.6m/s.

Humans are fast yo.

Diposting pertama kali oleh DreadLordNaf:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

Yeah, but, Over the course of the day that doesn't add up that much. It's odd; But it's not the difference between you starving to death and not. How many times are you realistically doing that walking distance in a day while lingering at base? If your base is laid out even half decently, maybe 25 times if you want to be generous- So you consume a whopping... 50 more calories than running. Eat a head of lettuce and you've offset that and gained +4 calories than that cost.

Yeah but the fact that you acknowledge it's broken is my point. Jogging to save calories and "gain weight" compared to walking is the most illogical and counter intuitive thing ever, regardless of how you can compensate for it. And as we've described if you enjoy challenge games where there isnt chips and butter galore everywhere, it forces you into a more grindy narrow playstyle, that is neither more challenging or more fun which was always the big draw points of PZ.

And also it is kiling my char. Im still living off of plentiful canned food, but because the hunger and calorie mechanic are disconnected, you arent allowed to actually eat enough to meet your burned calories.

You can eat around 10 ingame minutes after you finished eating. As soon as the moodle wiggles twice or changes from deep green to light green. If you eat a large chunk all at once it still eats it all despite already being 'full'. Fill your belly with small things, then after you max out, wait a moment, then eat a large meal.

I get your point- But, Jogging to 'gain weight' isn't going to help you gain weight. If you're struggling to meet X calories a day, You're not going to have any better luck meeting X calories minus 50.

[Shady Allie]

Points have been made. Counterpoints laid out. Best thing to do now is to just wait. No need to burn emotional fires.

*burns popcorn* Dang.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shady Allie:

Points have been made. Counterpoints laid out. Best thing to do now is to just wait. No need to burn emotional fires.

*burns popcorn* Dang.

All I've seen (except from the OP) is asinine nit-picking over the most ludicrously trivial details. Maybe a zombie apocalypse simulator attracts especially anally retentive people?

[Shurenai]

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

I've walked 10,000 steps most days for the last 2 decades. You may have me beat on knowledge of Running, allegedly; As I indeed need to google running info from time to time.

But I know walking. Try arguing with cold hard facts instead of insults, please.

For the record, even Google doesn't say the average walking pace is 3mph, it says that is a brisk pace. In other words, a power walk, almost as fast as you can walk without breaking out into a jog. Try actually clicking through your Google links to read the articles rather than just taking the headline summary Google gives you in bold. If we're going to get bogged down in pedantry, let's do it right.

And I've found your passive-aggressive tone insulting from the start. We're not children, presumably, we can pick up on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ attitude without any insults. You don't have any moral high ground here, I'm just more direct.

Try reading the article yourself, Perhaps?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-speed
Average walking speed by age:
<30 4.82 km/h 3 mph
30–39 4.54 km/h 2.8 mph
40–49 4.54 km/h 2.8 mph
50–59 4.43 km/h 2.75 mph

Average walking speed by ♥♥♥
Age ♥♥♥ Miles per hour (mph)
20–29
male 3.04
female 3.0
30–39
male 3.2
female 3.0
40–49
male 3.2
female 3.11
50–59
male 3.2
female 2.93

Listed AFTER the averages
What is a brisk pace?
A brisk pace occurs when a person walks faster than they naturally walk. The exact pace is relative to the individual with several potential factors affecting it, including:

age
♥♥♥
weight
overall health
length of time walking
While the exact nature of a brisk pace can vary, a 2018 study sought to generalize what it means to answer the question of how fast is fast enough. They found that for the average person to reach optimal walking speed, they need to have 100 or more steps per minute.

This finding correlates with earlier suggestions that suggest 100 steps per minute or a treadmill speed of 3.5 mph creates a brisk pace for a person.

===
A brisk pace is higher than the average- Pushing yourself a little bit beyond your natural pace. The average is 3mph.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shurenai:

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

For the record, even Google doesn't say the average walking pace is 3mph, it says that is a brisk pace. In other words, a power walk, almost as fast as you can walk without breaking out into a jog. Try actually clicking through your Google links to read the articles rather than just taking the headline summary Google gives you in bold. If we're going to get bogged down in pedantry, let's do it right.

And I've found your passive-aggressive tone insulting from the start. We're not children, presumably, we can pick up on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ attitude without any insults. You don't have any moral high ground here, I'm just more direct.

Try reading the article yourself, Perhaps?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-speed
Average walking speed by age:
<30 4.82 km/h 3 mph
30–39 4.54 km/h 2.8 mph
40–49 4.54 km/h 2.8 mph
50–59 4.43 km/h 2.75 mph

Average walking speed by ♥♥♥
Age ♥♥♥ Miles per hour (mph)
20–29
male 3.04
female 3.0
30–39
male 3.2
female 3.0
40–49
male 3.2
female 3.11
50–59
male 3.2
female 2.93

Listed AFTER the averages
What is a brisk pace?
A brisk pace occurs when a person walks faster than they naturally walk. The exact pace is relative to the individual with several potential factors affecting it, including:

age
♥♥♥
weight
overall health
length of time walking
While the exact nature of a brisk pace can vary, a 2018 study sought to generalize what it means to answer the question of how fast is fast enough. They found that for the average person to reach optimal walking speed, they need to have 100 or more steps per minute.

This finding correlates with earlier suggestions that suggest 100 steps per minute or a treadmill speed of 3.5 mph creates a brisk pace for a person.

===
A brisk pace is higher than the average- Pushing yourself a little bit beyond your natural pace. The average is 3mph.

No, you simpleton, that is the maximum speed the average person walks at, not the average speed the average person walks at. Like I said, 3mph is a very brisk pace, a power walk. The average stride of a fully grown man is 0.762 metres, so you'd have to take more than 1 step per second. That is a very fast pace, far faster than the in game character walks.

You're not going to win a debate against a qualified fitness instructor by Googling.

[Shady Allie]

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

No, you simpleton...

STOP.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shady Allie:

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

No, you simpleton...

STOP.

No. I have no intention of laying down for these passive-aggressive, pedantic trolls. This is how you're supposed to speak to them, they don't deserve civility.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh EnigmaGrey:

Does the distance the character covers even matter in a game that'd look like a yakity sax skit if it tired to represent that accurately? It'd be unplayable.

All that really matters is it has a "close enough" representation of the calories consumed for walking/jogging/sprinting.

I only brought this up in the first place to illustrate exactly why it's so difficult to compare real life to the game, due to the warped time. An easy way to get a "close enough" system would be to just use the categories like "sedentary", "moderately active" etc. the way calorie/macronutrient calculators do, then have a ceiling of calories burned at around 3000, because pretty much nobody who weighs 80KG needs more than that to maintain weight, other than maybe a handful of athletes with freakish metabolism.

[Shady Allie]

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

No. I have no intention of laying down for these passive-aggressive, pedantic trolls. This is how you're supposed to speak to them, they don't deserve civility.

You're right, I remember reading that in the valve terms for forum use.

[SnuffSaid]

Diposting pertama kali oleh EnigmaGrey:

Diposting pertama kali oleh SnuffSaid:

I only brought this up in the first place to illustrate exactly why it's so difficult to compare real life to the game, due to the warped time. An easy way to get a "close enough" system would be to just use the categories like "sedentary", "moderately active" etc. the way calorie/macronutrient calculators do, then have a ceiling of calories burned at around 3000, because pretty much nobody who weighs 80KG needs more than that to maintain weight, other than maybe a handful of athletes with freakish metabolism.

Pretty much the way it works already, just the max calorie deficit is 3700, not 3000?

It's just calculated in real time so that weight can also increase or decrease in real time.

By a ceiling of 3000 I meant you'd have to be absurdly active to reach it too, not just walking around. There are people who work back-breaking labour all day long and go to the gym 4 times a week on top of it who would consider over 3000 calories bulking season.