Bandits, Multiplayer and a lot of text

[iX]

Please Read this top paragraph:
If I remember I’ll add a TL:DR at the bottom to give a brief explanation of the idea and if it’s something that you find interesting, I recommend reading the whole post to get a better feel for the idea. I will have to say I should probably post this idea towards the END of Project Zomboids development, but getting it discussed and thrown around can only improve it and make it more manageable for the devs.

The idea itself doesn’t actually have to damage the base game to much, since it’s more on a multiplayer experience rather than a single player one and an option with an OPT out setting would help. I’ll explain what I mean in the post.

Idea Buildup:
From playing Project Zomboid currently, there’s currently 2 main things which could go wrong. These being Nutrition and Zombies, I understand that they break down and they go into little sub categories but those are the main two. If you fail on one of these aspects you lose, you die.

I understand that hunting is going to be added into the game and NPCS but I can only assume that’s going to make the game easier rather than more difficult, obviously this is speculation because NPC could mean hostile ones for example bandits.

As you may imagine. Bandits would become one of the 3 main things instead of the “2 main things” the NPC bandits would be tasked with different reasons to attack you or your base. Maybe they’ll set fires, Maybe they’ll try and out right kill you and if it’s possible they’ll attempt to destroy key resources or even steal them and take them to a bandit base of operation. I’m sure people can think of a million and one things the bandits could do, but that is NOT what I want to focus on in this post.

... My idea comes from the expansion of bandits.

The Idea:
AI can be dumb, it’s hard to program in good AI and I could seem them struggling. Especially with things such as getting up to a second floor... and with the current strategy of project zomboid being floating bases with sheet ropes there's a high possability the bandit system / smart hostile AI wouldn't work. This is where Players would fill the gap and the OPT in and Out system comes into play.

So when a Bandit attack is “triggered” and the server / game has OPT in for this feature. Instead of AI bandits taking control and immediately doing their tasks, a system message would go out to human players who want to play as bandits, the bandits will then join the session and be greeted with some form of tactical screen. This is likely going to be very important so they’ll be able to see where to spawn in and where the normal players actually are.

Visual Helper: http://image.prntscr.com/image/64f6bdb34d7f45fcaa65842f767e9676.png

Chat to strategies.
Heatmap to see where the player or players actually are.
Green circle being the extraction zone.

(The image isn’t about how it looks, it’s what kind of features the bandits would have at their disposal.)

So, before I continue I’ll have to address everything above so I'm perfectly understood. Bandits would get preset loadouts AND they can only pick up items if it’s the mission item, this is to obviously stop someone from picking up a shotgun and killing everyone.
(I personally think bandits will need a sledgehammer with a lowish durability, a high carpenter skill, planks, hammers and nails to build stairs)

In the event a bandit does “kill” a player, the idea I had is that the player simply gets knocked out. But the bandits get EXP taken away and the failure condition is met, Once the bandit attack is over, the player who was knocked out will have to respawn in a safe area, or somewhere in his own base. (Maybe a bed of some kind is mandatory for the bandit attack before you can opt in. I realised if a player gets knocked down the bandits could call zombies around him, so when he gets back up he dies.)

I also believe that there should be a timer on the bandits, so if they are a particularly destructive group, they don’t have a lot of time to do it.

The experience points would be used like players chose their skills, a bandit player would start out with very little experience points and would place it into things he wants e.g. faster door picking, climb ropes faster, open crates faster, reload faster, better night vision, better arc vision, harder to spot. It’s one of those cases I’m sure people could think of a million and one different skill points, but I don’t want to spend too much time on it.

...(All the bandits could be controlled by one player instead of one for each bandit, would probably work better in terms of cooperation)

...(Maybe a report and commend feature for bandits from the players, that way bad bandits get less invites, but good bandits which do their mission get more)

Why?
I mainly would like another risk factor in my games, I’d like some of the skills people chose to be even more valuable than before.

For instance night time vision, a better arc, better hearing would suddenly become amazingly valuable, especially in multiplayer sessions. While everyone is sleeping and resting, you would have your best patrolman or the person who has the best vision skills on lookout, protecting your base, forever vigilant for the incoming bandit attack. Seems like it would be a great addition to gameplay.

Final thoughts
It’s a big idea… It’s likely to much, but maybe it’ll get people's brains fired up and bend, break my idea and potentially come up with something better.

Thank you for reading, go get a much deserved cookie.

tl:dr
God, how do I summarise... Player controlled bandits, with objectives, skill points as incentive -exp as incentive not to be a jerk, idea has an impact on skills players chose, but it's likely to much work to add into the game, something to be thought about at the end of development.

My Own Concerns
I've already stated that this idea should be suggested towards the end of Zomboids development... But regardless my own concern is that if the devs did put in the work for a feature this large that people wouldn't actually want to use it.

A similair example is the Prison Architect Escape mode, yes it's there. But in comparison to the main game it just lacks features and doesn't compare to actually playing the game.
If zomboid has tons of new features towards the end of development and all that we know now is vastly different and improved. Would this bandit system be fun? would be complex enough that people would want to be a bandit?

Discuss
Feel free to address concerns, what you like, what you don't like. I'm not easily offended and will happily respond. No hard feelings.

[Brother Frederick]

So wait, you want basically to implement invasions like in Dark Souls but with mechanics of Fallout 1 and 2 and to have a magical respawn in safehouse ?

Magical point of extraction ? Unless it's at the very edges of the map but then good luck with reaching cities... And wanishing into thin air is always realistic...

Also maps showing location of players ? What is this, somekind of arcade game ?

Not to mention that there would be no possible retaliation on those magical-appearing-and-disappearing banditos from titan, no attacking their base to teach them a lesson.


Nay and nay.

Now people at least need to create a toon, get equipment (most servers have loot respawn so its easy) and form a band to play bandits and their victims may track them down and deal with them.
Way it is now is ideal for MP AND dedicated RP servers, and SP is about playing alone without anyone interfering.
Invasions work well in DS where there is no permadeath and there is magic factor involved but in game that is all about realism and permadeath it is unacceptable to have magical spawns and respawns.

[iX]

Originally posted by Cool Beans:

So wait, you want basically to implement invasions like in Dark Souls but with mechanics of Fallout 1 and 2 and to have a magical respawn in safehouse ?

Somewhat, but if the bandits came in from the edge of the map and then they had to travel a distance to get there. That works fine with me.

Magical point of extraction ? Unless it's at the very edges of the map but then good luck with reaching cities... And wanishing into thin air is always realistic...

People leaving via the edge of the map seems a better way of doing it, the extraction location wasn't really something which I set in stone, maybe NPC AI bandits do actually setup in some form of building during the progress of the game and that's where the bandits would come from or even where the human bandits would take back stolen goods.

Also maps showing location of players ? What is this, somekind of arcade game ?

The map during the loading in of players was more to give them an idea of where the player locations were, the heatmap is was the most simple way I could come up with. But if things have to be super hyper realistic, I guess the NPCS which are being added could give out information... like they're north west from (location name) or they could just simply hand you a map where they've marked an X. Unless all maps were destroyed during some form of great book burning.

Not to mention that there would be no possible retaliation on those magical-appearing-and-disappearing banditos from titan, no attacking their base to teach them a lesson.

I left some extraction information above, which may help with realism.

Nay and nay.

Now people at least need to create a toon, get equipment (most servers have loot respawn so its easy) and form a band to play bandits and their victims may track them down and deal with them.
Way it is now is ideal for MP AND dedicated RP servers, and SP is about playing alone without anyone interfering.
Invasions work well in DS where there is no permadeath and there is magic factor involved but in game that is all about realism and permadeath it is unacceptable to have magical spawns and respawns.

I believe with discussion it would be possible to come up with solutions which would make the idea more realistic. I understand your concern that it may turn the game into Project Wizard and Dragons. But that's not what I want either.

I did mention that people wouldn't have to opt into this feature especially if people were afraid it would interfere with their single player world.

As for the magical respawning, mainly on the human / none bandit players side, it was just a soft reset idea. In case the bandits were out to just destroy anything.

I could of tripple the post length and gave lore and reason to every decision I made, but it was just more of an idea and I was hoping to get discussion into improving aspects. "I mean, helicopter guy is a thing in Zomboid... Bandit extraction?"

Thank you for responding although I can see you're very against the idea, but none the less it's given me some information on how it could be improved.

[Mimir]

Originally posted by iX:

Why?
I mainly would like another risk factor in my games, I’d like some of the skills people chose to be even more valuable than before.

For instance night time vision, a better arc, better hearing would suddenly become amazingly valuable, especially in multiplayer sessions. While everyone is sleeping and resting, you would have your best patrolman or the person who has the best vision skills on lookout, protecting your base, forever vigilant for the incoming bandit attack. Seems like it would be a great addition to gameplay.

This is the part I disagree with. If you want a higher risk factor, try playing on the russian servers... I agree that there's too little honest team PvP in PZ (although that might change) but I don't think this is a good solution to it. I expect NPC bandits/hostiles to be a real thing that will (depending on server settings and administration) bring all your concerns to rest - while at the same time, you have the option to seek them out and retaliate. Only thing it probably won't give you is an expendable bandit character to play with if you so choose.

I just think that this feature is too punishing for a game with permadeath. For some servers it would be good. And as a secondary feature (like the Prison Architect escape mode, but done better) it would be good.

[iX]

Originally posted by Mimer:

This is the part I disagree with. If you want a higher risk factor, try playing on the russian servers... I agree that there's too little honest team PvP in PZ (although that might change) but I don't think this is a good solution to it. I expect NPC bandits/hostiles to be a real thing that will (depending on server settings and administration) bring all your concerns to rest - while at the same time, you have the option to seek them out and retaliate. Only thing it probably won't give you is an expendable bandit character to play with if you so choose.

I just think that this feature is too punishing for a game with permadeath. For some servers it would be good. And as a secondary feature (like the Prison Architect escape mode, but done better) it would be good.

The permadeath is a big issue with my idea, I agree. That's why I tried to make the suggest that in the event of say the bandits having to steal specific items. Instead of out right killing you it could be some form of knockout... that way death isn't factored in, but there's still the negative that you're going to lose some items.

I'm honestly not to sure myself on the best way around this, maybe someone else could come up with a better solution to be discussed.

I guess I wanted my idea to be somewhere inbetween single player and multiplayer, a place where it adds difficulty but isn't as full blown as multiplayer servers with coordinated groups. A middle ground the sweet center where the interactions can be controlled more by the devs and balanced accordingly.

Even if the idea is denied by the devs, It's been fun just coming up with an idea and taking peoples concerns and trying to turn them into better solutions. There's always the likelyhood that something positive can be taken from the thread and put into the actual game even if it isn't the full idea. :)