What is up with all EULA bs and modding rules?

[repaeR]

What's going on here? Paying for a game, and I never actually own a game? Mods can't be this and that? What's going with all these games' ridiculous rules these days?! Being so anti consumer.

[Winblows]

every game has a eula, its just now you are forced to read and agree to it. before just by playing the game you were agreeing to it and people complained so now you are forced to agree before playing.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by repaeR:

What's going on here? Paying for a game, and I never actually own a game? Mods can't be this and that? What's going with all these games' ridiculous rules these days?! Being so anti consumer.

Actually you never own a game if you purchased it via steam, you are only entitled to a digital licenc to use the game. ;)

[repaeR]

Originally posted by Winblows:

every game has a eula, its just now you are forced to read and agree to it. before just by playing the game you were agreeing to it and people complained so now you are forced to agree before playing.

Yea, but I don't complain about EULA, I complain about bs that they put in there. I mean, I pay for the game, just so I can only play, not own it, and there are other million ridiculous stuff....but whatever I guess.

[repaeR]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by repaeR:

What's going on here? Paying for a game, and I never actually own a game? Mods can't be this and that? What's going with all these games' ridiculous rules these days?! Being so anti consumer.

Actually you never own a game if you purchased it via steam, you are only entitled to a digital licenc to use the game. ;)

Yea that too, I've been trying to limit buying games from steam from now on.

[wawawiwa]

okay, but what does it do, do you read it?
unless its like warcraft 3 reforge where any modification/custom map automatically owned by blizzard, i don't really see the big deal

[repaeR]

Originally posted by love me some sphagetay:

okay, but what does it do, do you read it?
unless its like warcraft 3 reforge where any modification/custom map automatically owned by blizzard, i don't really see the big deal

Yea I read it, I just hated the tone "oh you paid for it, but you never own the game", and I especially hated the modding policy on "oh you can only make mod to be like this and that". Along with all those non sense that sounded like wanting to teach me how to live my life bs...but whatever I only just ranted at the moment, I guess I'll get over with time. I can't refund this game anyway.

Bottom line is that I mainly only want to play single player, and do whatever I want to do offline. I hate all those bs that these companies have tried lately. So anti consumer.

[Sora]

They're always enforcing contracts between end user, and the company/developers. As far as I'm aware, even my games from 90's and early 2000's have EULA's but they either present in the installation setup, or are in a text file inside the game installation. People usually ignored them. Like others have pointed out, Steam, and most digital store fronts you have a "license" to play it, not own it. It can be terminated at anypoint by yourself; or Valve (creators of steam) you should read the SSA.

However:
EULA's are a way to protect the developers from potential issues, and clarify what you the end user are allowed to do, and not do with the software. If you have issues with them, you can simply void it by returning the product.

With that said, depending on the content of the EULA, and how much "legalese" it has in it, if the average consumer can't understand it, it might not hold up in court in the USA. EULA cases have been heard, and they're generally a grey legal area in the US as they're undefined. Some courts have ruled they're legal, and others have ruled they're completely unenforceable legally for example to access it requires the consumer purchase the product and open it then to return a opened product, potentially damaged product or unusable game code to a retail store, or not agreeing to something they couldn't see to begin with and already lost the money.

Most digital store fronts (e.g. Steam) provide the EULA on a sidebar below information for the game negating this fact. With that said EULA's are on a case-by-case basis in courts in America. Generally they're enforceable depending on its contents, and which court sees the case. That said, outside of the USA I have no idea.

As far as I am concerned the EULA for Project Zomboid is pretty relaxed, and is a non-issue and is rather forward, and acceptable in comparison to other EULA's. If you REALLY have an issue with EULA's you should read other EULA's for other games, where they basically say you're giving up your entire soul to play the game or if you make a mod *they* own it. While in Project Zomboid, the EULA references the modding policy, which states whatever you create is yours, and TIS has been well known for hiring mod creators.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Sora:

They're always enforcing contracts between end user, and the company/developers. As far as I'm aware, even my games from 90's and early 2000's have EULA's but they either present in the installation setup, or are in a text file inside the game installation. People usually ignored them. Like others have pointed out, Steam, and most digital store fronts you have a "license" to play it, not own it. It can be terminated at anypoint by yourself; or Valve (creators of steam) you should read the SSA.

However:
EULA's are a way to protect the developers from potential issues, and clarify what you the end user are allowed to do, and not do with the software. If you have issues with them, you can simply void it by returning the product.

With that said, depending on the content of the EULA, and how much "legalese" it has in it, if the average consumer can't understand it, it might not hold up in court in the USA. EULA cases have been heard, and they're generally a grey legal area in the US as they're undefined. Some courts have ruled they're legal, and others have ruled they're completely unenforceable legally for example to access it requires the consumer purchase the product and open it then to return a opened product, potentially damaged product or unusable game code to a retail store, or not agreeing to something they couldn't see to begin with and already lost the money.

Most digital store fronts (e.g. Steam) provide the EULA on a sidebar below information for the game negating this fact. With that said EULA's are on a case-by-case basis in courts in America. Generally they're enforceable depending on its contents, and which court sees the case. That said, outside of the USA I have no idea.

As far as I am concerned the EULA for Project Zomboid is pretty relaxed, and is a non-issue and is rather forward, and acceptable in comparison to other EULA's. If you REALLY have an issue with EULA's you should read other EULA's for other games, where they basically say you're giving up your entire soul to play the game or if you make a mod *they* own it. While in Project Zomboid, the EULA references the modding policy, which states whatever you create is yours, and TIS has been well known for hiring mod creators.

Actually i think that certain games do not have that EULA even in txt, because there should be a general one. Meaning that if you do not make your own version(aka the developer), then this general one will be the one that applies. At least in many countries there are legal contract practices, and EULA is a form of practice.
Also it is not required to hold up in the US, as certain EULA-s will limit which countries or which courts laws or legaslative procedures apply. It is similar to the form of firs selecting a mediator instead of going to court. Sometimes of course it is other countries themselves that might attack this clause if they find something very troublesome but that is a rare case.

[repaeR]

Originally posted by Sora:

They're always enforcing contracts between end user, and the company/developers. As far as I'm aware, even my games from 90's and early 2000's have EULA's but they either present in the installation setup, or are in a text file inside the game installation. People usually ignored them. Like others have pointed out, Steam, and most digital store fronts you have a "license" to play it, not own it. It can be terminated at anypoint by yourself; or Valve (creators of steam) you should read the SSA.

However:
EULA's are a way to protect the developers from potential issues, and clarify what you the end user are allowed to do, and not do with the software. If you have issues with them, you can simply void it by returning the product.

With that said, depending on the content of the EULA, and how much "legalese" it has in it, if the average consumer can't understand it, it might not hold up in court in the USA. EULA cases have been heard, and they're generally a grey legal area in the US as they're undefined. Some courts have ruled they're legal, and others have ruled they're completely unenforceable legally for example to access it requires the consumer purchase the product and open it then to return a opened product, potentially damaged product or unusable game code to a retail store, or not agreeing to something they couldn't see to begin with and already lost the money.

Most digital store fronts (e.g. Steam) provide the EULA on a sidebar below information for the game negating this fact. With that said EULA's are on a case-by-case basis in courts in America. Generally they're enforceable depending on its contents, and which court sees the case. That said, outside of the USA I have no idea.

As far as I am concerned the EULA for Project Zomboid is pretty relaxed, and is a non-issue and is rather forward, and acceptable in comparison to other EULA's. If you REALLY have an issue with EULA's you should read other EULA's for other games, where they basically say you're giving up your entire soul to play the game or if you make a mod *they* own it. While in Project Zomboid, the EULA references the modding policy, which states whatever you create is yours, and TIS has been well known for hiring mod creators.

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by repaeR:

Originally posted by Sora:

They're always enforcing contracts between end user, and the company/developers. As far as I'm aware, even my games from 90's and early 2000's have EULA's but they either present in the installation setup, or are in a text file inside the game installation. People usually ignored them. Like others have pointed out, Steam, and most digital store fronts you have a "license" to play it, not own it. It can be terminated at anypoint by yourself; or Valve (creators of steam) you should read the SSA.

However:
EULA's are a way to protect the developers from potential issues, and clarify what you the end user are allowed to do, and not do with the software. If you have issues with them, you can simply void it by returning the product.

With that said, depending on the content of the EULA, and how much "legalese" it has in it, if the average consumer can't understand it, it might not hold up in court in the USA. EULA cases have been heard, and they're generally a grey legal area in the US as they're undefined. Some courts have ruled they're legal, and others have ruled they're completely unenforceable legally for example to access it requires the consumer purchase the product and open it then to return a opened product, potentially damaged product or unusable game code to a retail store, or not agreeing to something they couldn't see to begin with and already lost the money.

Most digital store fronts (e.g. Steam) provide the EULA on a sidebar below information for the game negating this fact. With that said EULA's are on a case-by-case basis in courts in America. Generally they're enforceable depending on its contents, and which court sees the case. That said, outside of the USA I have no idea.

As far as I am concerned the EULA for Project Zomboid is pretty relaxed, and is a non-issue and is rather forward, and acceptable in comparison to other EULA's. If you REALLY have an issue with EULA's you should read other EULA's for other games, where they basically say you're giving up your entire soul to play the game or if you make a mod *they* own it. While in Project Zomboid, the EULA references the modding policy, which states whatever you create is yours, and TIS has been well known for hiring mod creators.

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

Check out the different practices of the retailers. Steam uses digital licence, but there is one that uses digital ownership. I mostly buy there because of this. I think it is why i have and will have one licence copy and one ownership copy of many games. PZ i have yet to buy as a digital owned one.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by repaeR:

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

Like you or most other people are going to read it there any more than they read it in the places it already exists?

You didn't even bother reading it this time until you already played more than enough that you Know you won't get a refund for it. Even if it was on the store, Would you have actually read it? Or did you only read it this time because you enjoyed the game and only then wanted to see what their EULA was to see if there was anything you disagreed with?

[Sora]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Actually i think that certain games do not have that EULA even in txt, because there should be a general one. Meaning that if you do not make your own version(aka the developer), then this general one will be the one that applies. At least in many countries there are legal contract practices, and EULA is a form of practice.
Also it is not required to hold up in the US, as certain EULA-s will limit which countries or which courts laws or legaslative procedures apply. It is similar to the form of firs selecting a mediator instead of going to court. Sometimes of course it is other countries themselves that might attack this clause if they find something very troublesome but that is a rare case.

A "general use" license is what I think you're rerfering to, and I only mentioned the USA because thats my country of birth. Outside of the USA I have no idea. I'm also not a lawyer, I only know that its a grey area in the USA and depending on which court sees the case, it will get thrown one way or the other very quickly from past knowledge of hearing about it and looking it up.

As far as holding up in the USA for other countries, It doesn't matter, as its a binding contract for you, at the time of signature/acceptance in your local laws. They'll usually serve a "one fits all" or a modified variant, to that country, or region. Some will also just serve a broad "one fits all" and then sub label specific countries that need amendments and adjust it accordingly in a single document.

Originally posted by repaeR:

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

Steam has started doing so and Project Zomboid does so[imgur.com]. its a notification on the right hand side of a games page, under the area about multi/single/vac/news. However I don't believe Valve is forcing developers to do so. They're are many games that still produce a EULA/AUP/Privacy Policy after purchase, and not before. Which IIRC was a case that was determined to be unenforceable in the past for the USA. As far as modern day legality I'm unsure. I don't keep up with this subject and I am not a lawyer. Just giving my two cents, on past knowledge and information.

That said, like I mentioned; I think the PZ EULA and Modding Terms are very acceptable in comparison to other game's EULA's. This is one of least aggressive EULA's I've seen.

Anti-cheat EULA's are the absolute worse its not only a rootkit (yes, they're literal rootkits and you're giving away your entire computer to play a game) they usually have policies like "i wont look at your private files, trust me bro, i'm only after the cheats" yet, being a rootkit they have complete control over every file, program, and depending on its functionality and implementation, the entire operating system. You just signed away your soul, and private life to play a game. Pretty sure Genshin Impact anti-cheat was a rootkit that was used to elevate actual malware above the system resulting in it bypassing even basic safety guards windows had due to a badly designed anti-cheat kernel driver.

*Edit*
By the way, have you considered reading the Microsoft EULA for Windows? Its worse than any game EULA could potentially be.

[Mamluk's Honor]

2 things.

1. You can buy the game on gog so you can do whatever you want with it.

2. You're allowed to make whatever mod you want for it, you just can't post dumb crap on steams workshop page (which steam wouldn't allow anyways).

If you wanted to make the most gruesome crazy torture mod, you're free to do it, just keep it on your own computer and nobody would even notice.

I own the game both on steam and gog. I'm starting to not use steam, I also don't use windows (100% using Linux now) as I don't support companies stealing your data, I also hate predatory DLC, monetization and dislike subscriptions that are anti consumer. You could say I'm that hippy that lives in the mountains.

[repaeR]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by repaeR:

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

Like you or most other people are going to read it there any more than they read it in the places it already exists?

You didn't even bother reading it this time until you already played more than enough that you Know you won't get a refund for it. Even if it was on the store, Would you have actually read it? Or did you only read it this time because you enjoyed the game and only then wanted to see what their EULA was to see if there was anything you disagreed with?

No, I bought it in 2021, I played only 1 hour, then I quit. Now I came back and there is a revised EULA in 2022. Yea, I don't think that I remembered to see it when first time that I played.

Yea, in the past I tended to skip EULA, but recently, especially after the effect of Starfield and Nexus mods; I have become irritated with EULA. They have becoming increasingly anti consumer, so I'm fed up and sensitive with any tone of EULA now.

[repaeR]

Originally posted by Sora:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Actually i think that certain games do not have that EULA even in txt, because there should be a general one. Meaning that if you do not make your own version(aka the developer), then this general one will be the one that applies. At least in many countries there are legal contract practices, and EULA is a form of practice.
Also it is not required to hold up in the US, as certain EULA-s will limit which countries or which courts laws or legaslative procedures apply. It is similar to the form of firs selecting a mediator instead of going to court. Sometimes of course it is other countries themselves that might attack this clause if they find something very troublesome but that is a rare case.

A "general use" license is what I think you're rerfering to, and I only mentioned the USA because thats my country of birth. Outside of the USA I have no idea. I'm also not a lawyer, I only know that its a grey area in the USA and depending on which court sees the case, it will get thrown one way or the other very quickly from past knowledge of hearing about it and looking it up.

As far as holding up in the USA for other countries, It doesn't matter, as its a binding contract for you, at the time of signature/acceptance in your local laws. They'll usually serve a "one fits all" or a modified variant, to that country, or region. Some will also just serve a broad "one fits all" and then sub label specific countries that need amendments and adjust it accordingly in a single document.

Originally posted by repaeR:

yea too late for me to refund, but it's alright, I'll just have to live with it. I think that every company should put their whole ridiculous EULA on the store page from now on, that would be great.

Steam has started doing so and Project Zomboid does so[imgur.com]. its a notification on the right hand side of a games page, under the area about multi/single/vac/news. However I don't believe Valve is forcing developers to do so. They're are many games that still produce a EULA/AUP/Privacy Policy after purchase, and not before. Which IIRC was a case that was determined to be unenforceable in the past for the USA. As far as modern day legality I'm unsure. I don't keep up with this subject and I am not a lawyer. Just giving my two cents, on past knowledge and information.

That said, like I mentioned; I think the PZ EULA and Modding Terms are very acceptable in comparison to other game's EULA's. This is one of least aggressive EULA's I've seen.

Anti-cheat EULA's are the absolute worse its not only a rootkit (yes, they're literal rootkits and you're giving away your entire computer to play a game) they usually have policies like "i wont look at your private files, trust me bro, i'm only after the cheats" yet, being a rootkit they have complete control over every file, program, and depending on its functionality and implementation, the entire operating system. You just signed away your soul, and private life to play a game. Pretty sure Genshin Impact anti-cheat was a rootkit that was used to elevate actual malware above the system resulting in it bypassing even basic safety guards windows had due to a badly designed anti-cheat kernel driver.

*Edit*
By the way, have you considered reading the Microsoft EULA for Windows? Its worse than any game EULA could potentially be.

yea I heard about Microsoft EULA, no I didn't read it, but I guess, I can't fight every battle. I just have to pick or choose what I can. I only use windows, and any other Microsoft product, I don't buy or use it.