build 42 has a serious Zombie awareness problem

[Traslo]

Seriously Honest to God, every single fight is just "zombies hearing you from untold distances" every single time. Stealth is 100% obsolete because Zombies will hear you from further away than you can even hear gunshots as the player. You smack a single zombie with a hammer and 6 zombies from the next house over immediately come running, and by the time you hit one of them another ten appear.

B42 is basically making combat pointless. If a Zombie is within 100m of you, you might as well just give up because hitting it once will aggro the entire street.

[Amroth]

Change zombie hearing in sandbox options from "Random" to "Random between normal and poor".

Your problem comes from the fact that some zombies are randomly assigned "pinpoint hearing", who can hear your melee attacks as if you fired a shotgun.

[Estellese]

You didn't provide a video of this happening, and I do not see this happening in my own games. So here, I will provide a video of basic gameplay and you tell me when and where zombies are unfairly targeting me without me making noise or being seen. I don't see any instances of anything you say happening, but feel free to point out where I am wrong and where it does happen.

I wasn't even playing stealth and didn't have issues with this. Set 2x speed and use the right arrow key to skip till after I stop playing with the gun and siren. As I do that for a bit in the beginning and that's obviously going to draw a horde to me.

https://youtu.be/ESW1NPVQAsM

[that guy from fortnite]

i honestly feel like theyre waaaay dumber. you dont get huge blobs like in b41 anymore because of the random senses

[Quill]

Originally posted by Amroth:

Change zombie hearing in sandbox options from "Random" to "Random between normal and poor".

Your problem comes from the fact that some zombies are randomly assigned "pinpoint hearing", who can hear your melee attacks as if you fired a shotgun.

On top of that you have Fast Shamblers and Shamblers

So you'll have zombies that hear you from far away but take a long time to reach you

[Estellese]

Originally posted by nikki:

i honestly feel like theyre waaaay dumber. you dont get huge blobs like in b41 anymore because of the random senses

This is also true. People complain about some zombies having exceptionally good hearing/sight, but completely overlook the fact that just as many have exceptionally bad hearing/sight.

And now they walk at different speeds too. It is now much, much easier to break apart a cluster of zombies and kill them in smaller groups.

[Traslo]

Every time I spawn in Muldraugh I get into a fight with one zombie, I check to ensure there's nothing close-by. Every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time it ends in a 15v1 because more and more keep aggroing out of nowhere.

I've been playing this ♥♥♥♥ since 2011 when it was on Desura. I've never had to wonder "where the ♥♥♥♥ are all of the zombies getting aggro from" when I've carefully picked one off to the side to deal with.

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Traslo:

Every time I spawn in Muldraugh I get into a fight with one zombie, I check to ensure there's nothing close-by. Every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time it ends in a 15v1 because more and more keep aggroing out of nowhere.

I've been playing this ♥♥♥♥ since 2011 when it was on Desura. I've never had to wonder "where the ♥♥♥♥ are all of the zombies getting aggro from" when I've carefully picked one off to the side to deal with.

And I have started in West Point, survived 4 months so far, killed about 900 zombies, and had no problem doing this.

Yes, random zombie perception changes the game a lot. You have to be more aware and strategic to avoid being jumped upon. You're no perfectly safe just because you do not see anyone nearby.

However, it also menas that zeds aren't packing themselves into massive hordes, that cannot be fought off until you're 5+ in a weapon skill. If one zed from a group notices you, it isn't a given that others will also notice you the moment you repel the first one.

And no, stealth still work, because it works on movement. It will never affect how much noise you make while hitting with a hammer. That further differentiates the blunt and bladed weapons, because the latter makes much less noise.

You need to practice more around the changes, adapt and learn how to appreciate the difference to what it used to. It's not as difficult as you might feel.

[Estellese]

Originally posted by Traslo:

Every time I spawn in Muldraugh I get into a fight with one zombie, I check to ensure there's nothing close-by. Every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time it ends in a 15v1 because more and more keep aggroing out of nowhere.

I've been playing this ♥♥♥♥ since 2011 when it was on Desura. I've never had to wonder "where the ♥♥♥♥ are all of the zombies getting aggro from" when I've carefully picked one off to the side to deal with.

I just shared a video of me playing with the polar opposite of a stealth build. I had both conspicuous and clumsy, AND I was using blunt weapons which are loud, making my character a giant glowing beacon attracting every zombie in the area.

And even with that, I am still not attracting that many. I get one or two here and there, but not that many. You are making more noise than you think, or are not being as sneaky as you think and are being spotted.

I even just went and tested in MD, and the only zombies getting pulled in are nearby ones. And the only time they were pulled from an oddly long distance was when I picked up a rock. Not sure why that got aggro. But it was a rock, not combat.

[jeanshortswag]

Originally posted by Estellese:

Originally posted by Traslo:

Every time I spawn in Muldraugh I get into a fight with one zombie, I check to ensure there's nothing close-by. Every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time it ends in a 15v1 because more and more keep aggroing out of nowhere.

I've been playing this ♥♥♥♥ since 2011 when it was on Desura. I've never had to wonder "where the ♥♥♥♥ are all of the zombies getting aggro from" when I've carefully picked one off to the side to deal with.

I just shared a video of me playing with the polar opposite of a stealth build. I had both conspicuous and clumsy, AND I was using blunt weapons which are loud, making my character a giant glowing beacon attracting every zombie in the area.

And even with that, I am still not attracting that many. I get one or two here and there, but not that many. You are making more noise than you think, or are not being as sneaky as you think and are being spotted.

I even just went and tested in MD, and the only zombies getting pulled in are nearby ones. And the only time they were pulled from an oddly long distance was when I picked up a rock. Not sure why that got aggro. But it was a rock, not combat.

If they aren't playing any different than they were prior to build 42, then what's the common denominator here? Not to mention it can all change at the snap of the fingers with the updates coming out right now.

[Estellese]

Originally posted by jeanshortswag:

Originally posted by Estellese:

I just shared a video of me playing with the polar opposite of a stealth build. I had both conspicuous and clumsy, AND I was using blunt weapons which are loud, making my character a giant glowing beacon attracting every zombie in the area.

And even with that, I am still not attracting that many. I get one or two here and there, but not that many. You are making more noise than you think, or are not being as sneaky as you think and are being spotted.

I even just went and tested in MD, and the only zombies getting pulled in are nearby ones. And the only time they were pulled from an oddly long distance was when I picked up a rock. Not sure why that got aggro. But it was a rock, not combat.

If they aren't playing any different than they were prior to build 42, then what's the common denominator here? Not to mention it can all change at the snap of the fingers with the updates coming out right now.

My best guess is that their playstyle was attracting all these zombies in B41 too. A few of them are the B42 hearing. But the big hordes? Are not.

But in B41 they are all the same speed, so it is easier to see a direct cause -> effect when you make noise and draw zombies. And it is more easily forgettable as zombies aren't a threat in B41 so it isn't like drawing extra will kill you. Might be getting a few more than normal due to the heatmap changes too.


In B42, because of the new random movement speeds, it is very easy to make a loud noise. Play a little and forget about it. And then have zombies chasing that previous loud noise coming out for you because they were slow.


Or you got spotted by them when you ran past them, but you didn't see them, and they chased you but they were slow so it took a bit for them to catch up.

This is most likely what is happening, but without video of their gameplay, I can't point to exactly what happened. (Seriously, we all have steam recording tools now, I think. Videos would help solve issues.)


You can always check yourself to see what is attracting zombies from long range. Just open the zombie population map in the debug menu. Stick it in the corner while you play. (Right click and drag inside the map to move it if you leave the center) When zombies spot you, you can see it on the map. You see lines pathing to you. Then you know -exactly- when they spotted you, and you can look at where they are coming from to find out why.

Most of the time, they were just a little off screen and saw you. Distance on the zombie population map is shorter than it appears.


Remember, hold right click and pan the aimer to the edges of the screen to view things far away. This can also be done in a car if the window is down.


And I am writing "you" as just a short way of saying the player. Not saying any one person in specific.

[San]

Originally posted by Estellese:

[...] Remember, hold right click and pan the aimer to the edges of the screen to view things far away. This can also be done in a car if the window is down.

Thank you for the window tip. I didn't figure it out in 1200 hr :,)

[Xenomorph]

Originally posted by Estellese:

Originally posted by jeanshortswag:

If they aren't playing any different than they were prior to build 42, then what's the common denominator here? Not to mention it can all change at the snap of the fingers with the updates coming out right now.

My best guess is that their playstyle was attracting all these zombies in B41 too. A few of them are the B42 hearing. But the big hordes? Are not.

But in B41 they are all the same speed, so it is easier to see a direct cause -> effect when you make noise and draw zombies. And it is more easily forgettable as zombies aren't a threat in B41 so it isn't like drawing extra will kill you. Might be getting a few more than normal due to the heatmap changes too.


In B42, because of the new random movement speeds, it is very easy to make a loud noise. Play a little and forget about it. And then have zombies chasing that previous loud noise coming out for you because they were slow.


Or you got spotted by them when you ran past them, but you didn't see them, and they chased you but they were slow so it took a bit for them to catch up.

This is most likely what is happening, but without video of their gameplay, I can't point to exactly what happened. (Seriously, we all have steam recording tools now, I think. Videos would help solve issues.)


You can always check yourself to see what is attracting zombies from long range. Just open the zombie population map in the debug menu. Stick it in the corner while you play. (Right click and drag inside the map to move it if you leave the center) When zombies spot you, you can see it on the map. You see lines pathing to you. Then you know -exactly- when they spotted you, and you can look at where they are coming from to find out why.

Most of the time, they were just a little off screen and saw you. Distance on the zombie population map is shorter than it appears.


Remember, hold right click and pan the aimer to the edges of the screen to view things far away. This can also be done in a car if the window is down.


And I am writing "you" as just a short way of saying the player. Not saying any one person in specific.

Just all of this. It's really that simple.

With muscle fatigue in play along with exhertion and all the variance in zed senses, fighting zed is a much, much better experience, imho. Needs little tweaks here and there, but it was a wonderful change to the core game mechanic of killing zed.

Does it take some time to get accustomed to? Like most things, yes.

[Estellese]

Originally posted by San:

Originally posted by Estellese:

[...] Remember, hold right click and pan the aimer to the edges of the screen to view things far away. This can also be done in a car if the window is down.

Thank you for the window tip. I didn't figure it out in 1200 hr :,)

Happy to help! Zomboid has so many tiny details like this. Even I am still learning new things.

[Death]

Originally posted by Estellese:

Originally posted by jeanshortswag:

If they aren't playing any different than they were prior to build 42, then what's the common denominator here? Not to mention it can all change at the snap of the fingers with the updates coming out right now.

My best guess is that their playstyle was attracting all these zombies in B41 too. A few of them are the B42 hearing. But the big hordes? Are not.

But in B41 they are all the same speed, so it is easier to see a direct cause -> effect when you make noise and draw zombies. And it is more easily forgettable as zombies aren't a threat in B41 so it isn't like drawing extra will kill you. Might be getting a few more than normal due to the heatmap changes too.


In B42, because of the new random movement speeds, it is very easy to make a loud noise. Play a little and forget about it. And then have zombies chasing that previous loud noise coming out for you because they were slow.


Or you got spotted by them when you ran past them, but you didn't see them, and they chased you but they were slow so it took a bit for them to catch up.

This is most likely what is happening, but without video of their gameplay, I can't point to exactly what happened. (Seriously, we all have steam recording tools now, I think. Videos would help solve issues.)


You can always check yourself to see what is attracting zombies from long range. Just open the zombie population map in the debug menu. Stick it in the corner while you play. (Right click and drag inside the map to move it if you leave the center) When zombies spot you, you can see it on the map. You see lines pathing to you. Then you know -exactly- when they spotted you, and you can look at where they are coming from to find out why.

Most of the time, they were just a little off screen and saw you. Distance on the zombie population map is shorter than it appears.


Remember, hold right click and pan the aimer to the edges of the screen to view things far away. This can also be done in a car if the window is down.


And I am writing "you" as just a short way of saying the player. Not saying any one person in specific.

Nah, that's total nonsense. My play style in 41 never drew a ton of zombies, but in 42 at default settings they come from all over as if a bat smacking a skull can be heard from a block away. I'm glad that you're not having issues with it, but it is absurd. And I'm not even a person that complains about stupid ♥♥♥♥. Fights just never end because with each attack you're pulling more and more zombies.

[Estellese]

Originally posted by Death:

Nah, that's total nonsense. My play style in 41 never drew a ton of zombies, but in 42 at default settings they come from all over as if a bat smacking a skull can be heard from a block away. I'm glad that you're not having issues with it, but it is absurd. And I'm not even a person that complains about stupid ♥♥♥♥. Fights just never end because with each attack you're pulling more and more zombies.

It is fact, unless you are hitting some sort of bug. I also use bats, and I also play with both conspicuous and clumsy (Video posted below is traitless). They do not come from all over. Here is a video of me using a bat very close to, but out of the LOS of, a group of 12 zombies. 2 of them hear it. (And two more come out of the building, but they were banging on the door before I hit anything with the bat). And that's a group that is very close to me.

The slightly more distant groups of 5 and 8 didn't notice at all.

I did draw the aggro of two more by the gazebo, but those had direct LOS to me fighting.

https://youtu.be/fCZKkvZy16k?t=160


And here, to make visualizing it easier.

https://i.imgur.com/DvrA9zz.png

The red group of 12, only 2 heard me. At that distance.

The groups of 5 and 8 (8 is off screen but not far, can be seen in video), none of them heard me.





Seriously, use the steam recording tools. Play a couple days with the debug zombie population window open (probably on a fresh run since it's kinda cheating. Best not to ruin your real run.)

If you are actually attracting attention from things far away, this will pick it up. Then you just use the steam recording tools to clip that, and throw it on youtube. (Be sure to start the clip a couple minute before you see the zombie lines pathing to you, on the zombie population window. So we can work out the exact moment they were alerted. And then end it a minute or so after they find you and you kill them.)

If you don't share what you are seeing, the only thing I can do is shrug and tell you that this isn't how the mechanics work. Because it isn't. Melee is more noisy then before, but not THAT noisy. You're not pulling things from very far. So either you're hitting a bug somewhere, like the picking up rocks bug I found (Picking up rocks is very loud for some reason). But I don't know what bug you're hitting if I can't see what you did. Or you're making a mistake somewhere and just not noticing.