Zombies spawning or migrating question

[GerardotheCrusader]

On build 42 unstable why does it seem that you can never really clear out a spot. Super annoying when zombies keep on coming to your safehouse especially when you have to bug out every few days. Is it intentional in build 42? Zombies respawn is disabled but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ always seem to show up and more in numbers

[Armagenesis]

Never had that issue before. Not sure how it is now in 42.10. I haven't played 42.10 much, but so far, I haven't seen extreme migration case unless there's something to trigger it.

And the culprits are the usual suspects. Running vehicles, generator, animal sounds, radio and TV, meta event, heli event, and worst of all: combat.

...or mods.

[GerardotheCrusader]

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Never had that issue before. Not sure how it is now in 42.10. I haven't played 42.10 much, but so far, I haven't seen extreme migration case unless there's something to trigger it.

And the culprits are the usual suspects. Running vehicles, generator, animal sounds, radio and TV, meta event, heli event, and worst of all: combat.

...or mods.

A reddit post mentioned combat and how they can hear you from far away but it takes them ages to get there so that might be it. You waiting for 42.10 to be stable? The addition of animals is the best feature.

[Zrugde]

Zombies have much better hearing in 42 so anything will attract them. Also dead zombies attract zombies so try to kill away from your safehouse as much as possible or drag corpses away. It actually gets much safer once power goes out unless you have a genny running.

[GerardotheCrusader]

Originally posted by Zrugde:

Zombies have much better hearing in 42 so anything will attract them. Also dead zombies attract zombies so try to kill away from your safehouse as much as possible or drag corpses away. It actually gets much safer once power goes out unless you have a genny running.

Really? Thats gonna do it then I have hella bodies outside of the safehouse. Thanks Zrugde

[GreenSpleen]

Originally posted by GerardotheCrusader:

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Never had that issue before. Not sure how it is now in 42.10. I haven't played 42.10 much, but so far, I haven't seen extreme migration case unless there's something to trigger it.

And the culprits are the usual suspects. Running vehicles, generator, animal sounds, radio and TV, meta event, heli event, and worst of all: combat.

...or mods.

A reddit post mentioned combat and how they can hear you from far away but it takes them ages to get there so that might be it. You waiting for 42.10 to be stable? The addition of animals is the best feature.

No it's a spawning issue as I was based in the apartments above the food , hardware store and post office in Westpoint . I removed the stairs with a sledgehammer and installed a sheet rope outside on the roof. Every time I leave or reload the game zombies spawn in the apartments. Respawn turned off , suspect it may have something to do with the game yet to reach peak zombie spawn.

[Arsenal[26]]

^ yep.... simulated migration gone wrong.

It has to be simulated, since zombie movement does not occur off screen or in the adjacent cell. It would be nice to think that at least nearby (actual) initial spawn zombies are the ones 'warping' over to simulate migration, but I don't think that's the case.

I was clearing the long stretch of road North to LV, using Custom Zoom Levels was able to spot zombies spawning at the ~50sq mark in droves... These were not approaching from the edge of the screen... They were just appearing in the middle of the field, like they were para-troopers or something.

Another time, I watched a single zombie walk behind a tree, and emerge with a dozen friends that were not with him just moments before.

So if the same kind of random warping or simulated migration is used for building interiors, that would explain why its impossible to keep them out.

Hopefully this gets addressed so that fences / doors / windows / barricades / and strategic locations involving water or natural barriers can have some actual value in the game.

[Kaydeth]

Originally posted by Zrugde:

Zombies have much better hearing in 42 so anything will attract them. Also dead zombies attract zombies so try to kill away from your safehouse as much as possible or drag corpses away. It actually gets much safer once power goes out unless you have a genny running.

I believe they rolled back the hearing in 42.10.0. The default settings no longer include zombies with pinpoint hearing (or whatever the max level is called).

So it depends on if OP is playing a new save on 42.10, or still playing an old save.

[ultra]

Never have this ussue, just clear closer spaces too, and areas, also heli helps alot with this, he moves out what not cleared but not far, in my opinion they split and move some small amounts in clean areas, little later they organise mini groups, spread more distance, later bigger, for example when yesterday heli come, i just stay in Rosewood near to spiffo and clear all what i not see, but now it's all fully clear for sure, if you not see them or not hear them this not mean they not close. Also one variant can be like few or one of them lost vision sight when go for ya and you not see them and when you counter them later it group already, very common situation in my eyes, ahh yes i forgot little helper - whistle, yep
42.09 and 42.10 same

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by GreenSpleen:

Originally posted by GerardotheCrusader:

A reddit post mentioned combat and how they can hear you from far away but it takes them ages to get there so that might be it. You waiting for 42.10 to be stable? The addition of animals is the best feature.

No it's a spawning issue as I was based in the apartments above the food , hardware store and post office in Westpoint . I removed the stairs with a sledgehammer and installed a sheet rope outside on the roof. Every time I leave or reload the game zombies spawn in the apartments. Respawn turned off , suspect it may have something to do with the game yet to reach peak zombie spawn.

Do the zeds spawn on the upper floor? If it's just on the lower floor, then it could be what Arsenal said above. If it's on the upper floor, where there's no access (because as you said, you destroyed the stairs), I suspect mod issue.

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by Kaydeth:

Originally posted by Zrugde:

Zombies have much better hearing in 42 so anything will attract them. Also dead zombies attract zombies so try to kill away from your safehouse as much as possible or drag corpses away. It actually gets much safer once power goes out unless you have a genny running.

I believe they rolled back the hearing in 42.10.0. The default settings no longer include zombies with pinpoint hearing (or whatever the max level is called).

So it depends on if OP is playing a new save on 42.10, or still playing an old save.

Pretty sure it wasn't about whether the zombies have pinpoint hearing or not. It's just combat is louder in general compared to b41.

I'm using the new setting right now. And I fought a zombie at the front of the pizza parlor in Rosewood. Did the usual stomp. Then suddenly every single zombie from the back, where they weren't supposed to be able to hear me, came over. It's one thing that I got detected because I was fighting in the open, but for those zeds who couldn't even see me started to approach as well is definitely not the hearing setting's issue.

Or maybe I just suck at calculating the number of tiles.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Originally posted by Kaydeth:

I believe they rolled back the hearing in 42.10.0. The default settings no longer include zombies with pinpoint hearing (or whatever the max level is called).

So it depends on if OP is playing a new save on 42.10, or still playing an old save.

Pretty sure it wasn't about whether the zombies have pinpoint hearing or not. It's just combat is louder in general compared to b41.

I'm using the new setting right now. And I fought a zombie at the front of the pizza parlor in Rosewood. Did the usual stomp. Then suddenly every single zombie from the back, where they weren't supposed to be able to hear me, came over. It's one thing that I got detected because I was fighting in the open, but for those zeds who couldn't even see me started to approach as well is definitely not the hearing setting's issue.

Or maybe I just suck at calculating the number of tiles.

Fighting is loud. Hand to hand, especially stomping seems to be louder than using a hand wratchet. Though someone could do an actual test with debug if he or she feels like.
But that is my experience. Stomping seems to draw zeds towards you from "offscreen".
It depends on hearing, but not even pinpoint hearing is required for them to pick this up.(It just extends the range.) Worse is if a group leader zombie hears you stomping he will bring all the group members towards you. So if in the back there was a group leader present and heard you, it can easily explain why you were suddenly "rushed" by them.

Regarding the original issue, well zombies will respawn until peak day is reached.
Meanwhile when you exit and reload the game, i think the zombies are still redistributed in the cell. The worst case scenario is if when you are exiting and the saving the game zombies actually reach the border of your cell, as they are redistributable and can explain the increase. I am unsure if nearby cells gets redistro and affect your current cells balance either.

Arsenal[26]'s statement regarding zombie movement afaik is not correct. Zombie movement happens when the zombies are "offscreen" afaik. It is just slightly different than it used to. However what i don't know if cell needs to be visited in order to trigger this or it can happen throughout the map. With certain mods and debug it could be monitored, but then again the mod can mess this up, so the information we might get can be inconclusive.
(There are some videos explaining migration in B41. Using radar and what not. And there zombies moved when "offscreen". A more extensive experiment would be required to be performed in B42 to actually get behind everything that is asked/stated/etc. in this thread. As a sidenote i still experienced behaviour in vanila regarding migration and spawn that was not explained in the mentioned videos.)

Regarding random warping. This might or should happen only when then game is reloaded and the zeds are redistributed, however it should take into consideration the "unreachable" zones. In B41 it did. (Or at least i never encountered anything contradicting this.) What in B41 was present in for a while and what i read a few posts about in B42 was though that apparantly the "glitching through" can occur again.
As in zombies are able to occasionally "glitch through"objects they should not be able to pass. Fences, walls etc. (In B41 i noticed this behaviour in the Wreckers when i used this place as a base. Every now and then a few zombies "glitched through" the fence. This always happened while my character was sleeping. Or if he was away from the base. Prolonged or not prolonged time does not matter. It just makes it harder to notice, because respawn might also come into play. So in order to monitor the glitching through, you would need to remember the zombies that are outside. And then compare them with the one or ones that got suddenly through the fence. My experience was that i had once 3 zombies glitch through at the southwestern part of the fence at the edge, near the trailer. There were three bigger groups present then.)

The thing is regarding respawn, migration and such anomalies you would need to set up a number of "test environments" and observe them for a while and simulate it. And then maybe you could draw some conclusions.

(For instance i encountered in B41 every single time after a thunderstorm a massive migration triggering. Yet there was no reason for it to happen. I talked about i think Enigma and another mod about it but they did not believe it happened. Yet every time there was a thunderstorm i encountered massive hordes passing through the world. They also always seemed to go north. It might have been the migration script in play or something else. Yet even when i lived in Marsh Ridge and cleared 1/4th of the town, i still encountered them going northeast/northwest after the thunderstorm. This is B41 experience still.)

edit: slight modifications.

[Arsenal[26]]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Arsenal[26]'s statement regarding zombie movement afaik is not correct. Zombie movement happens when the zombies are "offscreen" afaik. It is just slightly different than it used to. However what i don't know if cell needs to be visited in order to trigger this or it can happen throughout the map. With certain mods and debug it could be monitored, but then again the mod can mess this up, so the information we might get can be inconclusive.
(There are some videos explaining migration in B41. Using radar and what not. And there zombies moved when "offscreen". A more extensive experiment would be required to be performed in B42 to actually get behind everything that is asked/stated/etc. in this thread. As a sidenote i still experienced behaviour in vanila regarding migration and spawn that was not explained in the mentioned videos.)

Off screen was not the correct term... since there are zoom levels that can vary greatly... I guess what I meant was 'beyond whatever distance' at which they are no longer actively moving and sort of 'stored' for when you return.

[BitterSwede]

I'm not sure it was the intention of it, but zombie spawn and migration behaviour was tweaked for B42. And it has been re-tweaked a few times since. The latest, 42.10, added some more tweaks after some unintentional hording around certain areas.

What you describe sounds entirely like migration though, and that doesn't happen very often. A few times per month, at most. Either that, or your idea of "clearing out the area" doesn't cover a big enough area, because they will wander around aimlessly around the area they are in every ~12 hours or so, and start bunching up together if they reach other zombies and move together from then on. So if you've only cleared out the back yard of the house you're in, it is expected behaviour to find new zombies in your back yard the next day. If you've cleaned out the neighbourhood and find a horde in the back yard of a house in the middle, that sounds a bit more serious.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Arsenal26:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Arsenal[26]'s statement regarding zombie movement afaik is not correct. Zombie movement happens when the zombies are "offscreen" afaik. It is just slightly different than it used to. However what i don't know if cell needs to be visited in order to trigger this or it can happen throughout the map. With certain mods and debug it could be monitored, but then again the mod can mess this up, so the information we might get can be inconclusive.
(There are some videos explaining migration in B41. Using radar and what not. And there zombies moved when "offscreen". A more extensive experiment would be required to be performed in B42 to actually get behind everything that is asked/stated/etc. in this thread. As a sidenote i still experienced behaviour in vanila regarding migration and spawn that was not explained in the mentioned videos.)

Off screen was not the correct term... since there are zoom levels that can vary greatly... I guess what I meant was 'beyond whatever distance' at which they are no longer actively moving and sort of 'stored' for when you return.

And i perhaps worded it incorrectly but that is what i mean.
They move even when you have absolutely no chance to see them. (So if you are in WP, the zombies in Riverside can still move.) They are just stored differently. There was in an older post a breakdown how that happened in B41.
Basicly they are stored as a few numbers if you are not able to see them but they will still move. In B41 if i recall well it affected this way every cell.
In B42 i am not sure. It is why i meant whether they move in unvisited cells as well or not. (So if there is now a trigger condition.) But i would say they should be moving in unvisited and unseen cells as well. Just like a slightly less active script is running that controls their movements.

If you give a thought to it: If they would only actively move in the cell you are present at, or within your sight range, then the migration script would have absolutely no purpose. Since after a while you could exhaust every zombie in your vicinity, if you keep in the same place for a prolonged time once you dealt with every zombie. Especially so with respawn off. But that is not the case.