B42 crafting is impossible to judge

[Banzai_Samurai]

To keep it brief, 3 years for what we've gotten should have been enough time to sort out the sores and major faults and decisions that currently, the devs and the build just doesn't have answered.

Why does making clay kilns require plastic buckets full of concrete and mason trowels? Something that tribal villages did with 1/2 people, mud, and the bare hands? Same thing for the rest of claymaking?

Is building meant to have the same versatility/interchangeable objects like regular crafting?

Are there any plans to address the copious amounts of grind required to level up the crafting skills? Research options/'fidgit around' options for those characters starting without wilderness knowledge, or to level up skills from nothing?

Why does simple things like making a stone hammer take maintenance? How does keeping things maintained help me wrap some rags around a rock on a stick?

Any plans for research in general, to get away from the game being a book reading simulator and more hands-on with the new systems?

I LIKE what is actually here. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I like having a break from 'smashy smashy killy killy zombie', and/or having a reason to engage with zombie clearing. I'd like a complete innawoods experience that would allow characters to take on insane+ zombie pop towns and cities without first needing like 5+ modern day items + a car.

But it's currently impossible to judge what to say when half of my previous complaints with the crafting system are WiP, or otherwise feel like placeholders & empty shells.

[Kaia]

well i think you can still judge or give an opinion on the crafting framework, UI design and all the inconsistencies you might find in the receipes themselves. You can also escalate feedback and opinion on the amount of grind/time needed for leveling those skills.

That's the purpose of heaving EA testers escalating feedback on what works and what doesn't, the idea being that your feedback may help shape future development.

I think the mindset you're approaching this with isn't fit for the unstable state this build is, since you're expecting things to be done to "judge" them.

[Kameraden]

Honestly, it kind of fits in the category of unnecessary complexity as I will call it. Kind of like how now they require a rubber hose to siphon gas from vehicles. It makes sense logically in the real world, but adds unnecessary complexity in a video game world, when in 41 you just needed a container to store the gasoline.

For example: When taking off with an airplane, do you want it to be ULTRA realistic, or do you want to start the engine, and start rolling down the runway. Ultra Realistic requires hitting a dozen switches, checking a dozen gauges, and many other not so fun steps.

If the devs push too far one way they will make the game pretty much unplayable. Leave modders to add in complexity for the most hardcore players.

[Armagenesis]

Man, I remember hearing the same thing back in early B41 release.
But yeah, hopefully the crafting recipes are going to get adjusted down the line.
Besides, we are only seeing half the update right now, so maybe when the advanced crafting update drops, we'll see some major changes.

[Banzai_Samurai]

Originally posted by Kaia:

well i think you can still judge or give an opinion on the crafting framework, UI design and all the inconsistencies you might find in the receipes themselves. You can also escalate feedback and opinion on the amount of grind/time needed for leveling those skills.

That's the purpose of heaving EA testers escalating feedback on what works and what doesn't, the idea being that your feedback may help shape future development.

I think the mindset you're approaching this with isn't fit for the unstable state this build is, since you're expecting things to be done to "judge" them.

Part of why it feels impossible to judge is because of the question; what has been deliberately placed by the Devs/what do THEY want to keep, and what is ACTUALLY open for suggestion/reinterpretation?

Short of the boundless bickering we've seen with muscle strain, which caused them to change it, the problem comes from the brick wall that is "we intended for it to be like this".

I will concede that I've been hit too many times with that excuse to not expect it for every issue I take with a system or way of things in a game, but... A trowel + bucket for a friggin
dirt kiln? Who comes up with that if it WASN'T a deliberate choice on part of the devs?

It's difficult to say at times.

[Kalmorph]

I love thinking that there's different ways to achieve something. I won't go deeper in details about this, but I believe players should be able to persue crafting with different tools available or using different materials. I'm still early game on my playthrough, so I haven't touched anything like that yet and I can't say anything more to sum, but I think that design choice would be awesome.

[Jackdot]

I have some feedback on crafting, and since there is no official feedback for this game, despite TIS claiming they want feedback, I will leave it here.

Number 1, not putting any weapon blacksmithing into the crafting update is bad. I know they will be adding more as the game goes on, but currently blacksmithing weapons, something a ton of people were excited to try out, is not in the game.

2, Crafting requirements are kinda jank. Some recipes are wildly expensive for no reason, some of them do not let you use alternate items that really should be allowed. For example, you cannot use a club hammer for any crafting recipe, and for carpentry only a ball-peel hammer is allowed. The ingredients for recipes really need another pass, especially since this was supposed to be a selling feature of the update.

3, Locking primitive and improvised recipes behind skill magazines is terrible design. Why do I need to find a RNG magazine to be able to make a wooden club with a rock lodged into it? or to learn how to screw a tin can onto the end of a bat? For making swords and actual weapons I 100% understand locking the knowledge away, but improvised weapons, as well as primitive weapons like a bone club, should not be locked behind a skill magazine. It should be a simple progression, where you take a weapon you like and reinforce it with some scrap to make it hit harder and last longer. It should be a nice reward for scavenging and figuring out how to combine some trash you found into a half decent weapon, not some RNG treasure hunt to find a single skill mag to let you actually use all the materials you have already got in the shed. A general rule of thumb should be, could I improvise this in real life with no training. A moltov should not need a skill magazine to teach me how to stick a rag in some gasoline, light and throw it.

I like where the system is headed, but you really need to remove some of these limits that stop people from using the system. Nothing is more disappointing that realising you have all the materials to craft a new weapon, only to find out you haven't read a skill magazine to tell you how to stick a bucket on the end of a broom

[Hadrian]

Originally posted by Jackdot:

I have some feedback on crafting, and since there is no official feedback for this game, despite TIS claiming they want feedback, I will leave it here.

Number 1, not putting any weapon blacksmithing into the crafting update is bad. I know they will be adding more as the game goes on, but currently blacksmithing weapons, something a ton of people were excited to try out, is not in the game.

2, Crafting requirements are kinda jank. Some recipes are wildly expensive for no reason, some of them do not let you use alternate items that really should be allowed. For example, you cannot use a club hammer for any crafting recipe, and for carpentry only a ball-peel hammer is allowed. The ingredients for recipes really need another pass, especially since this was supposed to be a selling feature of the update.

3, Locking primitive and improvised recipes behind skill magazines is terrible design. Why do I need to find a RNG magazine to be able to make a wooden club with a rock lodged into it? or to learn how to screw a tin can onto the end of a bat? For making swords and actual weapons I 100% understand locking the knowledge away, but improvised weapons, as well as primitive weapons like a bone club, should not be locked behind a skill magazine. It should be a simple progression, where you take a weapon you like and reinforce it with some scrap to make it hit harder and last longer. It should be a nice reward for scavenging and figuring out how to combine some trash you found into a half decent weapon, not some RNG treasure hunt to find a single skill mag to let you actually use all the materials you have already got in the shed. A general rule of thumb should be, could I improvise this in real life with no training. A moltov should not need a skill magazine to teach me how to stick a rag in some gasoline, light and throw it.

I like where the system is headed, but you really need to remove some of these limits that stop people from using the system. Nothing is more disappointing that realising you have all the materials to craft a new weapon, only to find out you haven't read a skill magazine to tell you how to stick a bucket on the end of a broom

At first, I'm thinking, "But do YOU know how to affix a stone to a stick in a way that it would stay for more than a few strikes?" Then the reply might be, "No, but I'd try." This gets me to thinking, could there not be a "Trial and Error" style research system? Like attempt to make things without recipe and a % chance based on skill to learn the recipe? Add onto that perhaps a tasting or testing of food items for poison.

[Horschdt]

Have you actually ever tried to build a stone axe/ hammer yourself? Its not that simple. I am glad theres at least one game out there where you dont just collect "branch and stone", click and have a tool to fell a tree.