Thoughts on stealth usability in B42

[Giant Space Hamster]

I've been trying to get the hang of the stealth changes. I'm using both Inconspicuous and Graceful. I've managed to get both Stealth and Nimble up to rank 2 so far. About three weeks into a playthrough at this point.

My experience has been mixed. On the one hand, there are definitely times I can sneak behind a zomboid and it feels good. I can feel the difference when walking around. I still have to be very careful if they're facing my general direction though as it seems pretty random whether or not they'll see me from about one block away.

I have been trying to make use of the new feature where supposedly sneaking behind fences and cars should help hide you but I have not noticed any advantage from those, either when trying to hide from zomboids initially or when trying to break a trail of them following me. This has been rather disappointing.

The biggest issue though is combat. Populated areas are simply too packed to sneak through while entirely avoiding combat, but as soon as you swing at a zomboid the sound draws them from about a block in every direction. So the problem is that it's impossible to sneak through areas completely and the first combat will draw a ton of them to you no matter how sneaky you are. In the end it means that sneaking really only helps slightly shorten the distance you need to go around solo zomboids but really doesn't help at all when there are more than a handful in an area. I was really hoping that stealth would be at least a partial solution to looting shops but it doesn't seem to help at all currently.

I like the direction things are going trying to emphasize stealth and not make fighting hordes of zombies the baseline strategy, but right now stealth doesn't feel very useful and really feels like stealth just gets you into a big combat every time.

I'd love to see more ways to distract zomboids like throwing rocks or cans, and combat sounds need to be able to be reduced in some way so that combat doesn't always turn into more combat.

Has anyone out there had more success?

[gza]

Let me cover myself in the guts of zombies to walk through hoards, that'd be an awesome addition to stealth imo.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

When I was trying things out it seemed to me that noise manipulation and luring is still king. I did not get all technical and observe most conditions that may affect such as fog and sight distance etc. Ultimately it just seemed more efficient and consistent to use sound than go metal gear route. You can come across various techniques and recipes on your journey that will help you in this. Things like the noisemaker existed in b41 but just didn't have large radius to make it worthwhile. There are more options to work with here.

Another thing about it all is I full on expect to see zombie pop to increase at some point as b41 had a ton more. So I think true stealth that depends only on sneak will be harder there too in hot areas. Even tho people bring up zombie density in this update, in most situations I would've most likely seen more in b41 in the same areas. If reduced overall population size is expected then that is a bummer on my end since that was one of main appeal when I first saw PZ. You don't often see a game throw hordes at you like that.

Anyways, take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I did not thoroughly test things or go digging into code and all that. Just went by the feel of it.

[[BRTD]Luewen]

First level of stealth skills dont really help that much but it does pile up in the higher levels.
Also, if you are using default settings, each invidual zombie can have different stats on hearing and seeing etc.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

Wait, is there a whole new stealth stat now? Aren't there already like 3 or 4 of them dealing with sound and all that?

[Beltneck]

Originally posted by gza:

Let me cover myself in the guts of zombies to walk through hoards, that'd be an awesome addition to stealth imo.

You get sick being near zombie corpses. Pretty sure smearing them all over yourself is going to be worse.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Giant Space Hamster:

Iit seems pretty random whether or not they'll see me from about one block away.

It is.
Zeds kinda do a roll on spot success again and again, stealth makes that roll harder. And less you move in line of sight, the less probability to get the successful roll.
But some people believe "inconspicuous" should give some magical invisibility for flaunting the bums indefinitely right after the character spawn, but not quick dash between houses after some stealth training.
I just use conspicuous+lightfooted, since there is no probability but flat decrease. If you are stomping quieter, you don't make some loud stomps occasionally.

[RyuujinPl]

Originally posted by Beltneck:

Originally posted by gza:

Let me cover myself in the guts of zombies to walk through hoards, that'd be an awesome addition to stealth imo.

You get sick being near zombie corpses. Pretty sure smearing them all over yourself is going to be worse.

This is actually amazing idea balance-wise. Smearing yourself with guts allows player to greatly increase their stealth allowing them to go straight through hordes, but:
- Exposition to corpse disease is kind-of time limit
- There should be some panic induced
- Sickness should raise with time, especially when weak stomach trait
- Any injury, even scratch, when being covered in zombie guts should give additional adjective 50% chance of getting infected. That counts even tripping.

Just so covering yourself with guts were not invincible mode but rather trade-off for more dense zombies populations or as emergency escape plan.
I would also love cover not being 100% effective. For example making noise right next to zombie should trigger it. So should attacking zombie or gunfire.

[Xenomorph]

If you run Zomboid with mods, i'd recommend this https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3396867685
It may make the game a little easier, but i think it will fit right in with what you are trying to do.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Smokers and sneakers:)

[The early worm deserves the bird]

I'm working on updating a guide I wrote from B41 to B42. Here's what I have for stealth:

Zombies have a 20 tile sight detection radius, on average (more or less depending on settings), in a cone around their head. Flashlights do not trigger zombies if the beam is in their radius. Only the player will set it off.

• Stealth only effects the amount of sound a player makes. If a character walks directly in front of a zombie, regardless of stealth level, they will see you. Due to this it’s always better to sneak up from behind a zombie.
• If you have low stealth taking off your shoes and walking barefoot will make less noise but risks hurting your feet. Wear socks to help with this. Higher stealth will lower your sound radius with or without shoes.
• Stealth xp is based on how many zombies don’t see you, bigger groups give more XP, however car alarms, house alarms, etc. will now disable stealth xp gain.
• Night and fog effect zombie sight but only by a couple of tiles.
• A tropical storm is the only thing that effects a zombies hearing.
• Cars now break zombie line of sight and can be used to escape them.
• Lightfooted makes your normal everyday walking/running quieter

[THE REAL CAPT3N]

this truly is a game engine limitation. Zomboid will never be metal gear solid. Stealth will always be sorta hit or miss with the nature of the game and its engine. Zombies are pretty stupid, there are some stealth improvements in 42, but for the most part, they gonna be aware of you if you're in range.

This sort of thing just always going to be a lil janky in our little isometric universe.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by THE REAL CAPT3N:

this truly is a game engine limitation. Zomboid will never be metal gear solid.

Add cardboard box+invisibility. Sneaking issue solved.

[THE REAL CAPT3N]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by THE REAL CAPT3N:

this truly is a game engine limitation. Zomboid will never be metal gear solid.

Add cardboard box+invisibility. Sneaking issue solved.

I might be surprised if that isn't actually on the workshop

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by THE REAL CAPT3N:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Add cardboard box+invisibility. Sneaking issue solved.

I might be surprised if that isn't actually on the workshop

You would be surprised :P
This is not might and magic:) And definetly no heroes.:P