Gun jamming is comically absurd

[tf2 pomson enjoyer #FIXVACPLS]

Are these guns from the Dollar Tree or something? They jam an absurd amount to the point it feels like they're clogged up with mud, and stuck in concrete.
If gun jamming should be added, it should be reduced signifigantly and personally I feel as if it should be attached to how low the condition the gun is and how bloody it is (since blood would to the extent of my knowledge screw up the guns mechanisms)
Here's a comparison video as well. (not mine)
https://youtu.be/NBA14hQEoOg

[Crusanosicus]

They've said in a Reddit post that they think it's a little too much and are looking into reducing jam frequency(i would assume it'd be fixed in the next patch maybe), along with stuff like the aiming reticle not representing its position 1 to 1 in the world space, and couple other things, like a bug where bullets just skip past an entire horde without hitting anything

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

I have to agree; guns in real life don't jam with that sort of frequency if they are maintained well. The gun should only start to jam when the condition is low.

[DeeDos]

I don't think the game does anything to simulate ammo quality, but I think it does simulate unskilled shooters limp wristing, causing jams

[Frogging101]

Double-barrelled shotguns jam in PZ. Is it even possible for a break-action to jam?

[_TheBunnymaster_]

Originally posted by DeeDos:

I don't think the game does anything to simulate ammo quality, but I think it does simulate unskilled shooters limp wristing, causing jams

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams. It's causes hella inaccuracy though. Bad ammo can cause a feed problem. Poor maintenance can cause a feed problem. A defective part can cause a feed problem. A pristine weapon in proper working order should have zero chance of misfeeding just because some low-skilled noob is holding it.

[Quill]

Originally posted by _TheBunnymaster_:

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zxNvq7ZgKjA?si=jogz1CM2SSc0NeZR

It can but not on all guns

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Crusanosicus:

stuff like the aiming reticle not representing its position 1 to 1 in the world space

what did they say about this please? because i am not finding the reticle to be misaligned, so it am wondering what feedback or information has determined it is - and what change they are suggesting making (i don't use reddit, so any chance you could paste in their statement?) - thanks :-)

[_TheBunnymaster_]

Originally posted by Quill:

Originally posted by _TheBunnymaster_:

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zxNvq7ZgKjA?si=jogz1CM2SSc0NeZR

It can but not on all guns

I know why I've never seen this with frequency. It's because if I saw someone shooting like that they wouldn't be shooting like that for long. You've made the point successfully though.

[kaylo7]

Originally posted by _TheBunnymaster_:

Originally posted by DeeDos:

I don't think the game does anything to simulate ammo quality, but I think it does simulate unskilled shooters limp wristing, causing jams

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams. It's causes hella inaccuracy though. Bad ammo can cause a feed problem. Poor maintenance can cause a feed problem. A defective part can cause a feed problem. A pristine weapon in proper working order should have zero chance of misfeeding just because some low-skilled noob is holding it.

Yes it can. Stovepipes while shooting offhand are often the result of limp wristing. I've done it myself, because I don't train offhand nearly as often as I should.

[DeeDos]

Originally posted by _TheBunnymaster_:

Originally posted by DeeDos:

I don't think the game does anything to simulate ammo quality, but I think it does simulate unskilled shooters limp wristing, causing jams

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams. It's causes hella inaccuracy though. Bad ammo can cause a feed problem. Poor maintenance can cause a feed problem. A defective part can cause a feed problem. A pristine weapon in proper working order should have zero chance of misfeeding just because some low-skilled noob is holding it.

I don't know what you've consumed to convince you that interfering with the recoil operation, of a recoil dependent function, somehow can't be a factor.

[Drizzt]

and just to add - i can agree the jamming is arguably currently too often - especially on a weapon in perfect condition with magazines that have been preloaded by someone not under any stress (who may or may not have been qualified)

so i do think there should be settings for the frequency

but i would also think that the factors that could affect it could be:
- condition of the weapon
- condition of the magazine (not a thing yet iirc)
- quality of the ammo (not a thing, but hand loaded or poor quality ammo should probably jam more etc)
- modifiers based on how the weapon was loaded
e.g.
- if the magazine was inserted while the players was terrified, they could have smacked it hard against the slot before getting it right, which i imagine could damage the magazine (and shift the rounds) - so that could affect it by changing the magazine condition
- similar if they have low reload skill
- or if the magazine was loaded with ammo by someone with low skill
- or loaded by someone panicking, e.g. while they walk away from the horde
- and similar modifiers could be applied to non magazine weapons by applying the modifier to the weapon as it gets loaded (which would happen when you load a magazine as well - the modifier transferring to the weapon while they are connected)

one thing i will say about the current settings - it does make the gunplay super tense lol - without gun jamming it is a lot more chilled - since once you get the hang of the new aim system, and have sufficient aim skill for the weapon you are using, and aren't panicked, 15 uninterrupted 9mm shots are going to rack up a reasonable number of kills - and as soon as it clicks you reload

but interrupting firing for jams, especially later in the magazine, means you need to rack it before you reload it, which can make it more tense, as you need to disengage and then reengage, knowing you will need to reload soon too

i agree it should be configurable - but the current settings do fit with the game's standard of having rock hard default settings

anyway - while i am looking forward to jamming frequency being a setting - as well as possibly aim modifiers - i hope they don't do anything too drastic to the reticule alignment, because i have been finding it works perfectly - so i am not sure what they intend to change about it - and i hope it will also be configurable if the change is anything particularly drastic and/or not explicitly something that is somehow currently broken that is being fixed, and instead a change to the feel for a preferences kind of reason

because it would suck to have them add this new aiming system that i am finding has really improved the feel of the gunplay - to have that feel changed significantly or reverted, without it being reimplementable through settings or mods

[_TheBunnymaster_]

Originally posted by DeeDos:

Originally posted by _TheBunnymaster_:

'Limp-wristing' doesn't cause jams. It's causes hella inaccuracy though. Bad ammo can cause a feed problem. Poor maintenance can cause a feed problem. A defective part can cause a feed problem. A pristine weapon in proper working order should have zero chance of misfeeding just because some low-skilled noob is holding it.

I don't know what you've consumed to convince you that interfering with the recoil operation, of a recoil dependent function, somehow can't be a factor.

I gave credit to the original person making that point already, but I'll reiterate the I'd not seen that type of crappy technique before until I watched the YouTube video. Most of those type of technique errors I ensure are corrected before I ever let someone handle any type of rounds.

[ewpayne]

Even at aiming 10 this is very bad. My guy will push zombies away that are 10ft away? Then zombies will jedi grab you and bite you from 5+ ft away. Shooting is only achievable at point blank, assuming your cursor is exactly at the sweet spot. And this is level 10...

I was jamming every clip.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by ewpayne:

Even at aiming 10 this is very bad. My guy will push zombies away that are 10ft away? Then zombies will jedi grab you and bite you from 5+ ft away. Shooting is only achievable at point blank, assuming your cursor is exactly at the sweet spot. And this is level 10...

I was jamming every clip.

your aiming level does not reduce the frequency of jams

it is possible that your reloading level does (i will try it out and see)

shooting at level 10 is very possible and very accurate - but not if your character is panicked

in the new system panic obliterates accuracy - try again with Brave, or with the Veteran (desensitised) - or with god mode on (prevents panic) - you could also try beta blockers but i don't know how helpful they will be

however - with the cop (aiming 3) and the Brave trait, i have been able to start a game on Survivor (my typical preset) and get 30 kills with the M9 from the 140 rounds we start with

yes the gun jammed a lot - but even then, you can turn and walk away from the horde while racking - and then run a little to give you space to turn and shoot

but the jamming and aiming are two separate things

FYI, with the Brave Cop and aiming up at 10, i was able to get 80 kills out of the 140 rounds (first try was 67)

if you are having trouble aiming or being sure of your current accuracy, it is worth turning on the Aim Texture in the Target Reticule settings to get an idea of your chance to hit - it will gradually fade in to bright green as your chance to hit the current target increases - generally it is panic that ruins it - at aim 10 with no panic it is bright green a lot, and from long distance

with aim 0 and the M9 you will only get green at pretty much point blank when not panicked - but by then you will be getting panicked as well as lunged at

shotgun is a lot easier - even when panicked

but also - aiming skill does nothing to reduce jamming (i will report back if reloading helps)

[Drizzt]

reloading 10 does not seem to meaningfully reduce jamming frequency (but oh boy do those magazine get filled pleasingly quickly while walking away from the horde lol)