Muscle Strain and some of the problems with it

[Ediros]

Okay, whether you like Muscle Strain or not, it doesn't matter for the discussion. Instead, how about we crunch some numbers or at least, give you an idea just how grindy things have become ever since B41.

Everyone that played the game for a while knows that Fitness and Strength are some of the worst things to grind. Worse than real life, requiring more exercise than it's 'realistic' as the Indie Stone seems to strive for. Sure, they love making things more realistic, as long as it punishes the player. Libraries that have got 0 books, no adrenaline, Muscle Strain mechanics (though, kudos for reducing it in the latest patch).

-Fitness and Strength. A single exercise session with high fitness (8+) yields about 300 experience. In order to go from level 5 to 6 fitness you need to gain 30000 experience, aka 100 sessions of about 1 hour exercise. To go from 6 to 7? 60000. Double that. There is a reason why starting with 9 strength and 9 fitness has been one of the most common builds in b41. As far as I noticed, there were no changes that adjusted any of the values. Strength is also the only thing that reduces muscle strain.

-Weapon skills, in B42, there is one type of books that gives you multiplier for weapon and that is long blade, no such luck for everyone else. If you create a character with 0 weapon skills, it would take them 90000 HITS to reach max level in a single weapon skill. That's what? 15 000 zombies? More at higher levels? That's why fast learner + axe man were pretty much the best melee build. However, introducing Muscle Fatigue flips this on the head. It also takes forever to grind.

-Fatigue, Exhaustion and Muscle strain. They are all connected to how fast you get tired. You become weaker by smacking zombies over day with fatigue. You could become exhausted by fighting too many zombies or using heavy weapons. Then, comes the muscle fatigue and suddenly, things go from bad to worse.

THE RATES AT WHICH YOU GAIN EXPERIENCE + THE RELIANCE OF PURE STRENGTH AND SKILL LEAD TO HORRIBLE MELEE COMBAT.

Sure, in B41, you could use 50 hunting knives to kill 1000 zombies without getting tired, but in B42, it's the opposite of that. You can kill 5 zombies and suddenly you suffer from muscle strain and deal 50% less damage. Combine that with panic and other negative moodles and suddenly you deal aproximately 0 damage.

In fact, the current meta for combat seems to use LIGHT weapons (0.5 king and less) + fences to stomp zombies to keep muscle fatigue at bay. Forget about long blunt, axes, spears, etc. Why? Because muscle strain in it's current implementation just makes using them more of a hassle than a real weapon. As soon as you get muscle fatigue (red strain), you might as well leave for a 1 hour breather. That's how long it takes to recover from it at low levels.

Some suggestions:

-Make Muscle fatigue occour 12 hours AFTER excessive combat.
-Make Muscle Fatigue use Fitness, Strength and Weapon Skill to deduce how fast you get tired than just 2.
-Increase the experience gained for fitness, strength and weapon skill OR reduce requirments.

Here is Retanaru, who goes into detail about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RTZPDhi1Bk&pp=ygUIcmV0YW5hcnU%3D

[Martpogs]

TRUEEE

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

You could always just lower it or turn it off in the sandbox settings.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by xAlphaStarOmegax:

You could always just lower it or turn it off in the sandbox settings.

Mate:) Let them make suggestions, no need to remind them about the sandbox option of which they likely know of:P

Though i think most folks did not realize yet that you can counter muscle strains malus(which comes from pain!) with painkillers:)

[DrLamp]

My suggestion is to have exercise regularity moderate it.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

My suggestion is to have exercise regularity moderate it.

Or have those...oh whats it called...stretching.
If people are stretching before fighting, that could also increase the time before they get strain:D (Every morning i wake up watch the cooking show, stretch meanwhile then take my trusty cleaver/wench/whatever and go out to kill zombies. ->radio callinesthics:D)

[Dig Bick]

Unfortuantely this system sucks, and it ruins the game entirely, it and the overrated fatigue, this is very annoying and boring!

[Percavil]

ya just adding another meter to maintain... Tedious

I would have preferred like a "bladder/defecating" meter instead of this. If their idea with this, is realism.

But maybe that's why they added muscle strain, to implement the pooping mechanic in the future.

[Trexatron]

Why complain about game mechanics that are completely optional? You can change them whenever you want.

[Dadbod*]

Originally posted by Percavil:

ya just adding another meter to maintain... Tedious

I would have preferred like a "bladder/defecating" meter instead of this. If their idea with this, is realism.

But maybe that's why they added muscle strain, to implement the pooping mechanic in the future.

I would 100% be on board with a pooping mechanic/meter

[Puppers]

Originally posted by Dadbod*:

I would 100% be on board with a pooping mechanic/meter

You want pooping when people cant even handle muscle strain and fatigue?

[Spice Whale]

Originally posted by Trexatron:

Why complain about game mechanics that are completely optional? You can change them whenever you want.

That's all the devs should focus on going forward, adding bad mechanics but its okay because you can turn it off.

[Yare Yare]

You are not supposed to have max strenght/fitness with every character, thats a specialization that sacrifices other things with traits. You grinding it because you want to metagame is not a game "issue". The point of this update is to nerf meele builds because it was way too overpowered for way too little investment of ressources. With the firefighter axeman build you could litterally oneshot zombies and kill hundreds per day by kiting without getting tired. Compared to a rifleman, you would neither consume ammo nor have to sacrafice bagspace to store it and have a car nearby for resupplies and all that while being way less noisy aswell. Long blades got a book because there were no weapon traits for them like for the other weapons.

Now as a meele character you can still mow down Zombies effectively but you will not be a god with infinite stamina, you will have to retreat to rest and manage the other physical tasks that leave a strain on your body, in example dont do a heavy workout when you plan to do a lootrun or carry heavy loads the next day.