Good change on making Zombies more of a threat. Don't cave in to people crying about it.

[BunBox]

I'm glad to see combat has had a rework in such a way to make zombies considerably more of a threat instead of just the cannon fodder they quickly became.
Keeps the game MUCH more in line with the original (and I hope continuing) vision for the game.

Lost count of how many times I would lose interest in any kind of meaningful development, and a play-through not long after, once I became a zombie lawnmower.

It's still good to have it be *possible* but for considerably more time and stat/item investment rather than the "Oh wow I started playing an hour ago but time to go solo clear the shopping mall." it had become.

This update, while good, has taken far longer than ti should have to come out to fix the issue, so because of that the broken the state of things is what a lot of people who came to the game later on (and even quite a while ago too) will haven gotten used to the way things are as being "normal" rather than horrendously broken. (Like this was as thing for as far back as I Can remember for a long time, at least the 30 series of builds if not even further back.)

You're going to see a lot of ree'ing about it, but let people get used to it, used to the idea of luring again and actually thinking about how they engage a horde instead of simply "why think, simply swing lol."
Will be fun to see a return to those things, and new players coming in will be fine they'll learn these things too just like the rest of us did early on.

[Autumn]

MarkFranz původně napsal:

hardy_conrad původně napsal:

I'm not bothered by the firearms changes as guns were never really my scene.

"When they come for firearms, i was silent, they were not my thing"...

Damn, I sure wonder why gaming communities have a bad reputation. Maybe not the poem to reference over a video game nerfing its guns!

[Jackerino]

Malu původně napsal:

You are gonna get exhausted well before that. And yes, even an average man can swing an axe ten times more than what our characters do, especially with their life on the line.

We know for a fact that even in medieval times, muscle strain and pulled muscles were very common in combat against a moving target, due to the fact that human bodies have a lot of hard bits that weapons tend to get stuck on, especially if they had things on them, like jewelry, leather, etc.; all the time you'd get soldiers with strained muscles because your sword, axe, etc, would get caught on their flesh, bones, or armor, and would bite down, pulling your muscle or hurting you in some other way, due to not swinging at clean angles, hitting with the blunt side of the weapon, etc.,

Comparing chopping through shambling humans trying to kill you, to a controlled environment where you split wood in a very specific way so that you cleanly cut through the block with minimal effort, is really not a valid comparison.

[MarkFranz]

Autumn původně napsal:

MarkFranz původně napsal:

"When they come for firearms, i was silent, they were not my thing"...

NOOOO, YOU MUST CONSUME THE UPDATE AND BE EXCITED FOR NEW UPDATE, NOT BE UNHAPPY ABOUT CHANGES YOU DISLIKE

Lol

[Malu]

Dude, they are slow moving, lumbering targets. They are not dodging, they are just walking forward. You line them up and you strike. It's a lot more a valid comparison that combat with an armoured, intelligent opponent.

[Jackerino]

Malu původně napsal:

Dude, they are slow moving, lumbering targets. They are not dodging, they are just walking forward. You line them up and you strike. It's a lot more a valid comparison that combat with an armoured, intelligent opponent.

The point I was making was that zombies are shambling and unpredictable, with lots of hard bits inside their bodies, while also wearing clothing, and various other things that can screw up your swing.

If medieval weapons were still causing muscle strain in this way with things designed to be weapons, it's pretty obvious that something similar, to a more intense degree, is going to happen with things not designed to be weapons. No matter how good you are at swinging, a fire axe is not designed to chop through a moving target that has 3 layers of muscle and bone. That gets even worse when you use blunt objects like baseball bats, hammers, etc.

[Malu]

They are unpredictable the same way a log is unpredictable. Dude you're not changing my mind, it's a dumb mechanic, at least how it was implemented, and they're thankfully changing it. Peace.

[Jackerino]

Malu původně napsal:

They are unpredictable the same way a log is unpredictable. Dude you're not changing my mind, it's a dumb mechanic, at least how it was implemented, and they're thankfully changing it. Peace.

Uh... No? You place a log exactly where you want it, the log doesn't move at all, and you strike it at a very specific spot to ensure it splits along the grain. It is in no way comparable at all.

You have the right to not like the mechanic but to say it's dumb and doesn't make sense is pretty silly. At most they just have to tone it down a bit, which seems to be what they're doing.

[Glenarn]

I'm surprised they still haven't changed it so that zombies can set off house alarms by default, it's like they want realism but only when it makes you worse off, they even lowered the amount of points you can get from negative traits but didn't balance the professions or positive traits.

I'm not bothered by weapon strain as I'm already used to it with my Zero to Hero builds running out of stamina quickly but I do find it silly when they've already got several other modifiers already affecting weapon swing speed and weapon damage such as injury, stamina, tiredness, hunger, thirst and if you are in a state of panic.

[Forced Lobotomy]

Chaosolous původně napsal:

Nah. It's way better this way.

IMO they shouldn't of even toned it down to the 60% they just did. It was fine how it was.

How do you know they toned it down to 60%? did you see that somewhere in a blog post? I didnt see that at all, but i know the game updated

[Jackerino]

Forced Lobotomy původně napsal:

Chaosolous původně napsal:

Nah. It's way better this way.

IMO they shouldn't of even toned it down to the 60% they just did. It was fine how it was.

How do you know they toned it down to 60%? did you see that somewhere in a blog post? I didnt see that at all, but i know the game updated

If you check the news posts, it's on the latest one.

[Anna]

Wasn't tiredness a limiting factor outside multiplayer already to prevent horde killing?

[JustinDaniels]

Best part is that they kept true to their word, and made it tweakable in sandbox settings, meaning those who disagree with it can still enjoy their old-fashioned style, too! I love the muscle strain, but nerfed it down to about .25, and it's still enough to make me be mindful of my actions, while not forcing me into agony from killing 6 or 7 zombies with an axe.

[BunBox]

Anna původně napsal:

Wasn't tiredness a limiting factor outside multiplayer already to prevent horde killing?

Not in a functionally useful way.
You could quite literally yolo clear a horde of any size without much work.

It's been a problem for a *long* time, but a lot of people who have come to the game after this became a thing got used to that thinking it was normal rather than a disconnect in the design they were taking a long time in fixing.

That's the thing, this isn't so much a change as it is a fix for a problem that emerged quite a few updates ago due to a disconnect in player utility vs zombie threat.
This is closer to what the intention was and how the game played for the most part lol.

A big part of zomboid for the most part was the idea of using tools at your disposal to assist in your survival and exploration. Mechanics like panic and tiredness existed to make horde clearing less of a thing that could just be yolo'd.
But a good number of updates ago this broke in terms of this balancing act getting out of hand, and we all became action heroes.
They just took a long time in fixing it was all.

The problem was that the higher stat/skill investment that was part of horde clearing became pretty pointless beyond QoL improvement because while *useful* they weren't *necessary* but they were supposed to be to the task.
This fixes that. The actual amount of strain might need adjustment, but it's presence is a good fix.

[Ronin]

Jackerino původně napsal:

Malu původně napsal:

They are unpredictable the same way a log is unpredictable. Dude you're not changing my mind, it's a dumb mechanic, at least how it was implemented, and they're thankfully changing it. Peace.

Uh... No? You place a log exactly where you want it, the log doesn't move at all, and you strike it at a very specific spot to ensure it splits along the grain. It is in no way comparable at all.

You have the right to not like the mechanic but to say it's dumb and doesn't make sense is pretty silly. At most they just have to tone it down a bit, which seems to be what they're doing.

That guy thinks cutting a piece of wood in a flowing motion in controlled circumstances without any pressure or panic is the same as swinging wildly for your life, hacking through human beings, bone, flesh and guts all whilst under attack from all sides and dealing with traumatic stress of everyone being a zombie around you. Malu is clearly a being of great intelligence and reasoning. We are no match for his logic.

[Fenny]

Lexyvil původně napsal:

Lebo původně napsal:

I guess it's the "minecraft adventura update" effect.

in my opinion they should make muscle strain depend on strentgh and fitness aswell as weapon skill, but i personally like the feature, It just needs tweaking.

It actually already is based on Strength.
Whether the influence of Strength on mitigating muscle strain is additive (independent from weapon skills) or multiplicative (dependent on weapon skills), I don't yet know.

Strength currently has no effect on muscle strain. Only weapon skill has an effect. This is either a bug or an unimplmented feature that will come at a later date.