Metabolism traits are so bad

[Khornet]

So I can no longer start the game as a fat ♥♥♥♥ or a skeleton and "work it out" through gameplay by losing or gaining weight. Not only is it a PERMANENT malus now (because you either lose or gain weight faster), but it's only worth 2 negative points?

I get the smoker nerf, but this feels entirely unnecessary.

I also have no idea if it's possible to gain/lose certain traits, like the physical ones (Athletic/Strong out of the positives Weal/Puny out of the negatives), seeing how they want to make traits more inflexible.

[DrLamp]

The examples you gave are "temporary" in that they can be gained and lost according to your stats. I don't like these changes.

They've made the negatives just as negative, if not worse, but then made the positives alot less positive or, in some cases, removed them entirely. Then they took away some of the negatives that would help balance things out.

When looking at changes like this my calculus is simple. More negatives than positives=nerf.

I used to start my characters as obese, weak and unfit. So, zero strength, zero fitness and fat as hell on top of it. ROUGH start, but with work (and LOTS of it) you can become a lean mean zombie killing machine.

[Eve]

Underweight/overweight was basically just free points in the previous build. I will say they should probably raise the negative point amount because its a pretty huge undertaking to have this much of a disadvantage

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Eve:

Underweight/overweight was basically just free points in the previous build. I will say they should probably raise the negative point amount because its a pretty huge undertaking to have this much of a disadvantage

I propose that they make the positive traits cheaper. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other I guess.

[Khornet]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

The examples you gave are "temporary" in that they can be gained and lost according to your stats.

What do you mean?? I completely don't get this sentence.

Originally posted by Eve:

Underweight/overweight was basically just free points in the previous build.

Not really. Food rationing/management was an actual issue you had to plan around to turn your character fit. Now these traits are worthless and I only need to eat exclusively when hungry.
And besides, if I wanted "free" trait points I'd just change them in the sandbox settings...

[CaptainBinky]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

I used to start my characters as obese, weak and unfit. So, zero strength, zero fitness and fat as hell on top of it. ROUGH start, but with work (and LOTS of it) you can become a lean mean zombie killing machine.

The ability to load yourself up with particularly temporary issues and work your way out of them (such in, for example, the CDDA challenge) is an important aspect of the game. I can see why these sorts of free traits were changed to be inline with all the other traits which are permanent, but I'm sure there's some way in the future that we can work something in.

I'm thinking of maybe an additional part of character creation to customise starting penalties - like the things in the CDDA challenge, but each optional. So, for instance, starting the game obese, or drunk, or incredibly tired, or anything else which can produce problematic moodle consequences. On the flip side, you could also give yourself a boost by starting the game well fed, etc.

So yeah, I think there is a way to satisfy you - we'd just need to think about how the best way to do that is - whether it should tie into trait points, be its own point system thing, or be a sandbox thing, etc.

[Narrowmind]

Fair.

[Khornet]

Originally posted by CaptainBinky:

The ability to load yourself up with particularly temporary issues and work your way out of them (such in, for example, the CDDA challenge) is an important aspect of the game. I can see why these sorts of free traits were changed to be inline with all the other traits which are permanent, but I'm sure there's some way in the future that we can work something in.
I'm thinking of maybe an additional part of character creation to customise starting penalties - like the things in the CDDA challenge, but each optional. So, for instance, starting the game obese, or drunk, or incredibly tired, or anything else which can produce problematic moodle consequences. On the flip side, you could also give yourself a boost by starting the game well fed, etc.

I feel like the game did this well before 42 already. The obese and malnourished traits pretty much already did exactly what you described... and now they got nerfed/removed.
Same as smoker, but that one had it coming I guess.

My only option now is to take BOTH the unfit and weak traits for negative trait points... and I usually only had to choose one or the other. I assume these STILL depend on your Fitness/Strength skill levels...?

IMO this system just needs a bit more complexity, and the game needs to be more clear during character creation which traits are removable and which are permanent.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by CaptainBinky:

Originally posted by DrLamp:

I used to start my characters as obese, weak and unfit. So, zero strength, zero fitness and fat as hell on top of it. ROUGH start, but with work (and LOTS of it) you can become a lean mean zombie killing machine.

The ability to load yourself up with particularly temporary issues and work your way out of them (such in, for example, the CDDA challenge) is an important aspect of the game. I can see why these sorts of free traits were changed to be inline with all the other traits which are permanent, but I'm sure there's some way in the future that we can work something in.

I'm thinking of maybe an additional part of character creation to customise starting penalties - like the things in the CDDA challenge, but each optional. So, for instance, starting the game obese, or drunk, or incredibly tired, or anything else which can produce problematic moodle consequences. On the flip side, you could also give yourself a boost by starting the game well fed, etc.

So yeah, I think there is a way to satisfy you - we'd just need to think about how the best way to do that is - whether it should tie into trait points, be its own point system thing, or be a sandbox thing, etc.

Thanks Captain!
The ability to front-load the difficulty without permanently handicapping your character is SO important. Otherwise, it reinforces the idea of a "meta" build. I hate playing meta's. It just shoehorns every play session into the same mold.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Originally posted by CaptainBinky:

The ability to load yourself up with particularly temporary issues and work your way out of them (such in, for example, the CDDA challenge) is an important aspect of the game. I can see why these sorts of free traits were changed to be inline with all the other traits which are permanent, but I'm sure there's some way in the future that we can work something in.

I'm thinking of maybe an additional part of character creation to customise starting penalties - like the things in the CDDA challenge, but each optional. So, for instance, starting the game obese, or drunk, or incredibly tired, or anything else which can produce problematic moodle consequences. On the flip side, you could also give yourself a boost by starting the game well fed, etc.

So yeah, I think there is a way to satisfy you - we'd just need to think about how the best way to do that is - whether it should tie into trait points, be its own point system thing, or be a sandbox thing, etc.

Thanks Captain!
The ability to front-load the difficulty without permanently handicapping your character is SO important. Otherwise, it reinforces the idea of a "meta" build. I hate playing meta's. It just shoehorns every play session into the same mold.

At the same time, though, You were playing the meta. Frontloading with non-permanent effects so that you could lose them, essentially minmaxing your points. Take all the negatives that dont really impact you or that you can work of- That WAS the meta.

And it was such a strong meta that it was basically the defacto way to play once you passed a certain threshold of game knowledge.

Having permanent handicaps to balance yourself out with by comparison is, at least imo, less meta-forming, Because you're going to take positives and negatives that suit you or your character build goal, instead of Obese/Underweight + smoker + weak stomach + thin skin +weak/unfit every single time.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

I'm starting to agree after playing for abit. As to that, the rest of the traits and their changes also dont make sense.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Thanks Captain!
The ability to front-load the difficulty without permanently handicapping your character is SO important. Otherwise, it reinforces the idea of a "meta" build. I hate playing meta's. It just shoehorns every play session into the same mold.

At the same time, though, You were playing the meta. Frontloading with non-permanent effects so that you could lose them, essentially minmaxing your points. Take all the negatives that dont really impact you or that you can work of- That WAS the meta.

And it was such a strong meta that it was basically the defacto way to play once you passed a certain threshold of game knowledge.

Having permanent handicaps to balance yourself out with by comparison is, at least imo, less meta-forming, Because you're going to take positives and negatives that suit you or your character build goal, instead of Obese/Underweight + smoker + weak stomach + thin skin +weak/unfit every single time.

Not exactly, I NEVER chose weak stomach or thin skin. Those seemed like terrible ideas to me. Also, I'm one of the few people with more than a couple hundred hours that doesn't always choose smoker (usually, but not always). Pretty much for the simple reason that it's annoying to have to smoke every IRL 15 minutes, meta be damned. I see where you're coming from, but I didn't play "the meta". I chose traits that I felt would make my character strong in the end, but paid for it by being very easy to kill early on. Small mistakes meant restart. I even intentionally avoided some of the "power traits" that other people would take simply because they would either make me too strong, or just didn't feel right.

Maybe YOU were playing the meta by maximising your fun. :)

[Mahpell]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

I'm starting to agree after playing for abit. As to that, the rest of the traits and their changes also dont make sense.

Honestly, I don't even want to try new "Metabolism" traits. Not only they are worthless in terms of points, it's seemingly an obstacle you can't completely overcome, only stave off by a strict diet.

[Jet]

its so hard to gain weight nowadays. im eating steak and getting full to bursting modifier 3x a day and somehow STILL lose weight. the loot tables also seem way off compared to before. theres like 1 can of food every other house.

[Neskess]

Yeah sorry bud, no more freebie traits for you :)

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Jet:

its so hard to gain weight nowadays. im eating steak and getting full to bursting modifier 3x a day and somehow STILL lose weight. the loot tables also seem way off compared to before. theres like 1 can of food every other house.

You gotta overcome that initial calorie deficit. I did this by eating a couple tubs of ice cream and washing it down with a ham...an entire ham. Yeah, I'm putting on some weight now. haha