Item repair and sharpening.....

[Reapoman]

So I made the Sharpening wheel, or whatever its called, thinking I could fix up axe heads, better than whetstones, it done the same sharpening, I would have thought that it would have sharpened it to full or nearly, but no, it doesn't sharpen any more than the head condition, which I only seem to be able to improve with wood glue, wood glue should fix the handle, the Sharpening wheel, should sharpen and the anvil should fix the axe head....is this broken, or is it supposed to work like this? And as for the fire axe head, it can't be fixed by at all....

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by Reapoman:

I've had the same hammer for over a decade, still in perfect condition, I've the same kitchen knives for decades, as sharp as a razor and get used daily, so yeah, they do last a lifetime, I'd love to know what to hell your sharpening things with irl most trades men, have the same tools their entire lives and they are as sharp and as good as the day they bought them after decades, I'm guessing you've never done that type of graft, going by your statement lol

I worked in earthworks, where the instrument is used by rough men like 10 hr/day. A pickaxe's pointy end was blunt like a hammer after one season. Shovel heads beyond sharpening (cracked or missing like 1/4 of surface) was discarded in sacks.
Your "decade use" is slicing bread and occasional nailing I assume? Way different from head cracking I'd say.

Both of these points are totally legitimate.
Slicing bread shouldn't wear out a knife. Neither should keeping the edge keen. Reshaping a blade because it's seen heavy use (borderline abuse), should significantly shorten it's total life.

I have a nice boning knife. I keep the edge keen by passing a steel over it and occasionally giving it a few laps on a stone. That knife should be still be good decades after I'm in the ground. However if I was using it to try to stab through/chop bone or open tin cans with it, particularly without constantly refining the edge then it's going to need aggressive sharpening/reshaping. It won't last more than a couple years if that.

One possible solution is durability loss from maintenance scales with how dull the edge got before the tool was maintained. So, if you KEEP it in good condition it lasts longer. If you abuse the hell out of it, yeah you can repair it, but it's just not going to last as long as it could.

[Pripyat Lizard 🦎]

Absolutely nothing in this game is thought through or overseen by anyone with any knowledge at all about game design. We need a competitor..

[Reapoman]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Originally posted by Alex:

I worked in earthworks, where the instrument is used by rough men like 10 hr/day. A pickaxe's pointy end was blunt like a hammer after one season. Shovel heads beyond sharpening (cracked or missing like 1/4 of surface) was discarded in sacks.
Your "decade use" is slicing bread and occasional nailing I assume? Way different from head cracking I'd say.

Both of these points are totally legitimate.
Slicing bread shouldn't wear out a knife. Neither should keeping the edge keen. Reshaping a blade because it's seen heavy use (borderline abuse), should significantly shorten it's total life.

I have a nice boning knife. I keep the edge keen by passing a steel over it and occasionally giving it a few laps on a stone. That knife should be still be good decades after I'm in the ground. However if I was using it to try to stab through/chop bone or open tin cans with it, particularly without constantly refining the edge then it's going to need aggressive sharpening/reshaping. It won't last more than a couple years if that.

One possible solution is durability loss from maintenance scales with how dull the edge got before the tool was maintained. So, if you KEEP it in good condition it lasts longer. If you abuse the hell out of it, yeah you can repair it, but it's just not going to last as long as it could.

I agree, I like the new system, its just to harsh, if I find a weapon I like, I want it to last for a good while if I maintain it, I've tools here, that I abuse, and they are still good, could do with a sharpen, but still nowhere near breaking and becoming useless.

Sharpening does wear tools down, but unless your out measuring the mm it loses over the years of sharpening, you wouldn't know its worn down.

Then back to one of my points, the sharpening wheel doing the same as a whetstone, makes the point of making the sharpening wheel pointless, yes I know it's unstable, I'm just putting it out there, in hope they read and address it.

Also the wood glue, fixing a metal axe head, when the means to make it realistic is there, wood glue, fixes wooded handles, forge and anvil fixes the head and the sharpening wheel sharpens said weapon.

[VANGUARD]

Maybe the sharpness stat can act like a shield for the tool's condition stat.
As long as the axe is sharp enough it won't lose condition.
If it's blunt on the other hand it would slowly accumulate condition damage to handle and head.
The head should be much more durable than the handle, though.

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Pripyat Lizard 🦎:

Absolutely nothing in this game is thought through or overseen by anyone with any knowledge at all about game design. We need a competitor..

You guys got so used to flipping between realism and game design in favor of your arguments, that you can't even tell the difference between the two.

[GarfieldCultist]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by Reapoman:

I disagree, it just makes crafting and maintaining weapons completely pointless, I could understand your op view, if it was some super rare and powerful weapon, but its just a plain old axe, they are a dime a dozen, so yeah, crafting and maintaining a weapon is completely pointless.

If the durability was a lot better, it might be worth that effort to maintain it, but as it is, its like they are made out of tinfoil, there's no point, may as well grab an iron bar or a frying pan lol

I went to the effort to make a proper sharpening machine, that done no different, than a hand held whetstone, that's just rubbish, they may as well not have bothered to add in the sharpening wheel.
Edit lol Using glue to fix a metal axe head, is just a zone killer, like I said wood glue needs to fix only the handle, anvil and forge fixes the head and the sharpening stone fixes the sharpness,

So you say, a piece of metal can be sharpened indefinitely maintaining shape and volume, cracks and chips magically disappearing and missing metal magically reappearing?
I disagree, as any sane person who did sharpening irl.
Maybe it should worn out a bit slower, but definitely should. I had my share of heavy-used shovels, axes, pickaxes irl, sharpening and thrashing it.

I don't think the argument is so much "realism" as it is that there's no functional difference between 2 rocks you pick up off the ground vs a giant stone wheel you have to invest time, effort, resources, and skills into producing.

[Alex]

Bladed tools wear out much from heavy use (okay, mild abuse), because sharpening out blunt edge and smoothing chips spend quite a bit of material each time. And I saw what becomes of shovel after a workday with tree roots (and I bet skulls are quite harder than roots).
Kitchen knife could last decades if not used for bones though. So current game durability is not very realistic, where you can broke tens of knives by a day of leather slicing. Leather jackets ffs, not some hardened leather cuirass.
Blunt tools should last much more though. I held a sledge which saw years of smacking scrap metal. It was quite misshapen but I bet that metal lump would last years more of same abuse.

Back to the grinding wheel: it would make sharpening much more fast, easy, and efficient (especially after abuse to blunt and/or chipped state), but would not make the tool magically last longer. I hate sharpening the shovel with file (irl) just because it's a chore comparing to electric wheel.

[Tohtori Leka]

Originally posted by Reapoman:

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

All the tools in PZ must have been made in China since they break so easily. This has always been my main gripe with the game. Everything breaks down so extremely fast. Tools that irl would last a couple decades at least if not a lifetime or more can break in one day of use in game.

I can't argue with that, made in China tools would probably break if you lifted them, never mind using them lololo

I used a hammer made in China once to remove nails from wood, I put it against the wood and used another hammer to drive the claw under the nail's head but the head broke into three pieces when I hit it. I don't know why people even buy that cheap crap. Total waste of money.

[Tohtori Leka]

Originally posted by Alex:

(and I bet skulls are quite harder than roots).

They're not harder. Human skulls are pretty weak and can break from simply hitting the ground when its owner falls down. If you take a root or a branch or a plank or any piece of wood as long as a human and then let it fall, nothing happens to it. You can hit a piece of wood with a hammer as hard as you can and it will only get a small dent while a human skull will be crushed. They don't tell you to wear a helmet for no reason.

[Bomjus]

i don't think the grindstone should increase the condition of the head of the axe, becaues that owuld make the axe head infinitely durable and invalidate so many systems of the game.

i DO think that a grindstone/whetstone should always, when successful, put weapons to max sharpness. because having to sharp more and more often as a weapon gets closer to breaking is extremely tedious. and its' one of the main reasons i use short blunt/long blunt/ and if i do play an axe character i use pickaxes or stone axes as neither of those have sharpness.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

Originally posted by Reapoman:

I can't argue with that, made in China tools would probably break if you lifted them, never mind using them lololo

I used a hammer made in China once to remove nails from wood, I put it against the wood and used another hammer to drive the claw under the nail's head but the head broke into three pieces when I hit it. I don't know why people even buy that cheap crap. Total waste of money.

Dude, the Chinese don't even like using Chinese made products. They have a reputation as being cheap junk.

[Reapoman]

Originally posted by VANGUARD:

Maybe the sharpness stat can act like a shield for the tool's condition stat.
As long as the axe is sharp enough it won't lose condition.
If it's blunt on the other hand it would slowly accumulate condition damage to handle and head.
The head should be much more durable than the handle, though.

Exactly this.

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

Originally posted by Alex:

(and I bet skulls are quite harder than roots).

They're not harder. Human skulls are pretty weak and can break from simply hitting the ground when its owner falls down. If you take a root or a branch or a plank or any piece of wood as long as a human and then let it fall, nothing happens to it. You can hit a piece of wood with a hammer as hard as you can and it will only get a small dent while a human skull will be crushed. They don't tell you to wear a helmet for no reason.

Quite right, bones are fragile, they shouldn't wear down, metal items quite so easily, I've seen pick axe handles break peoples legs, not a mark on the wooden handle lol

Originally posted by Bomjus:

i don't think the grindstone should increase the condition of the head of the axe, becaues that owuld make the axe head infinitely durable and invalidate so many systems of the game.

i DO think that a grindstone/whetstone should always, when successful, put weapons to max sharpness. because having to sharp more and more often as a weapon gets closer to breaking is extremely tedious. and its' one of the main reasons i use short blunt/long blunt/ and if i do play an axe character i use pickaxes or stone axes as neither of those have sharpness.

I agree, it should sharpen it to max sharpness or close to it, the anvil and forge should be the way to go for head repair.

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

I used a hammer made in China once to remove nails from wood, I put it against the wood and used another hammer to drive the claw under the nail's head but the head broke into three pieces when I hit it. I don't know why people even buy that cheap crap. Total waste of money.

Dude, the Chinese don't even like using Chinese made products. They have a reputation as being cheap junk.

It's 1990s, things aren't made in China, they are made in the USA, so the quality is supposed to be good lol