Why did they change so much in B42? Instead of just adding things?

[Percavil]

B41 had very positive feedback, it took the devs a lot of work and time to balance everything to make it suitable to release that build. Only to see it all changed in B42. Just why?

It's great that they added animals, darkness mechanic, new crafting recipes, new items, new locations... That should have been it right there, that should have been the update.

But then they decided to change Looting, zombie density, hunger, XP, crafting, calories and a whole bunch of other mechanics/sub-systems. Now they need to re-balance the whole game again. Which just seems to be time consuming in terms of game development. Putting systems in place, only to re-write them all in the next update?

Seems like such a strange development cycle. Just trying to understand why.. at this rate it will take another 6-8 years minimum to get a stable NPC build. Do they even have funding for that many years? Shouldn't they be speeding up the development process by just adding things, instead of re-writing and re-balancing everything?

I have never seen another game have such hard time adding NPCs to their game. Just trying to understand. Why change everything? instead of simply adding things?

The new things they added did not break the balance of the game, it's the things they changed that broke the balance. This is why development is so slow, constantly tweaking sub-systems that didn't need to be changed.

Im worried they will run out of funding or get burnt out by re-adjusting things for another 10 years.

Edit: Players already have the opportunity to change difficulty/ adjust the game however they want, via changing game settings and mods.. That's what's great about this game, is that it's very customizable and mod friendly, to suit each players needs. So they can balance the game to their own liking. So it seems a little "wasted" that the devs are constantly tweaking these little things that players already have the ability to change... It's just doesn't feel like it should be a focus at this point.

[Narrowmind]

As a new player, this is something I've struggled to understand. I feel like if I play stable, it's just going to change, and if I play unstable, it doesn't even use the things it previously worked and isn't even ready for prime time. It's a very bad first impression. I completely understand problems with additions, but I don't understand problems with things that were celebrated previously. I don't know them well enough to just guess they know what their doing.

I can't imagine any scenario where a survivor of a zombie apocalypse will spend his time making glass. I don't understand why they would balance the game for multiplayer when the premise all along seems to be a solo experience, because "this is how YOU died."

[Percavil]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

I can't imagine any scenario where a survivor of a zombie apocalypse will spend his time making glass.

Ya thats a good point, adding these things like "making clay pots" (when theres already tons of pots and dishes to loot) Seems like a waste of development resources.

Although those little things don't ruin the balance, it's nice to have little things added but NPCs should be a top priority instead of these meaningless things.

It's the #1 requested feature. But instead, so much time developing blacksmith and clay pot crafting.

[Animalman]

yeah it abit of a fishing pot
i mean like returning to 41 unless there is unfinished buisiness now that beta is available doesn't feel like a good option. but moving forward depends on the updates and improvements.

i suspect they have a multiplayer already.
and they play it multiplayer.
maybe.
and thats how the devs are having fun.
while its tough with the bugs and system behaviours sp right now.
and unless you are uber excited to conquer and master the specific things (aside exploration) in this build, like the new professions. if you are in a rush to test and master then seems those are having a good time.
but i just in for the casual. await temptation to get in
cant get locked in yet in current version.
would be nice take a few days play a long game when everything is figured out

[Vex]

I think one problem is that they wait a long time and release a lot of new features and changes first after a couple of years, instead of releasing regularly more often and get constant feedback they can learn from faster.

[maviscruet]

B41 was, to anyone with a decent amount of experence, too easy. zombie locations were pretty much always the same, loot was consistent across the board and the only challenge was finding a generator manual or a sledgehammer. What the changes to B42 add is uncertainty. I read complaints from people on here unhappy because the strategy they always use in the town they always start in doesn't work all the time anymore. for me that's good. Having to have a plan B or C for when what you want to do doesn't work is much more challenging. I recently started in Westpoint, within 10 minutes of starting a horde is coming through my front door. I've had to relocate fast and I'm now holed up for the first night in a house I'd never normally consider basing myself in.

For me this is a much better representation of a zombie apocalypse. Early play at least is sometimes making the least bad choice, improvising and taking a bit of a convoluted route to long term survival. Yeah, some things need rebalancing, but I think B42 gives the game a much needed breath of fresh air.

[namorufa]

In my opinion those changes ADD depth to the previous mechanisms, which is a good thing. B41 added depth to the combat system, which was initially criticized because the characters felt heavy (due to momentum), needing time to do a 180 degree turn etc. Now people got used to it and nobody complains anymore.
In the older build foraging is just standing in one spot and waiting for things to happen, just like B41 fishing. Now you need to walk around to forage things, and now fishing needs proper reeling action.
Many of these changes may seem trivial, but if you stay with the game long enough you'll notice how shallow the mechanism of earlier builds are, and learn to appreciate how things get deeper with each build.
Personally I was bored with the predictability B41 zombies, and am enjoying the current battle-related changes. If you're not bored with B41 yet, I can understand why the change feel unnecessary.

Personally I think NPCs would be interesting but not to the point where I would get bored with the game without one, there's just so much new stuff to do in this build.

EDIT: just read the reply right above me and I pretty much agree with it wholly

[Ludicrous_Speed]

They are trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, it's not final. I'm sure many changes will be adjusted further or even reverted thanks to our feedback.

Just because we've had 3+ years to get used to things the way they were doesn't mean it was ever meant to stay that way. It was "balanced" (not so much really) with what was in b41 at the time and what they were okay with at the time, things change.

It's important we try to work with the developers and help them steer this ship instead of just complaining whenever there's changes we don't like.

Not saying you're doing that, there just shouldn't be this much confusion from people about why the unstable version you have to manually enable has problems.

It's still the holidays for many people. We waited 3 years, we can wait a little longer. We at least have a version to try out and give constructive feedback on while they are likely on break, feedback they can use to make it better.

[Animalman]

well thats the thing its difficult to get into it. not because its hard but because all the stuff you need to do to get to where you can try something new is all failing or underperforming in some aspect, as well as the map being clogged with mega hot spots. be it i wanna cook a meal just by having the necessary items in inventory, and cooking the meal. its very complicated and is a major stopper on the run because you loot good food and can't do nothing with it. The trait list doesn't feel complete imo either. it doesn't feel ready like i am not able to smoothly progress to a point where a new feature is interesting or rewarding. I just gotta cheese it all. pound the meal ingredients for example. Just burn everyone or hang out with some cows at an empty farm. its not open enough on the base version unmodded.
its not perfect enough to go from system to system without a break of immersion.

See i know fishing is new but have not tried because i am broken from immersion or else i rush to loot a rod and rush to do it day 1 i do not do it as and when is appropriate because the run is quit due to whatever confusion or inability coming at behaviours expected to treat the character well at an earlier stage to achieve greatness in the run.

[xenon]

OP, I get the sentiment of your statement, but you may not forget, they are building a completely new system, how ALL the items and stations are interacting with each other. They do this to give the game a better foundation, more interesting gameplay, more interactivity for the future. They also openly embrace modding and want modders to be able to easily include new ideas.
Just adding more stuff would lead to a huge mess, we see that in a lot of other games.

For that to happen, a lot of the old codebase has to be rewritten and adapted. That is why in the unstable version... things are unstable. It is not meant to stay that way, it is that way, because it is work in progress.

As an (somewhat bad) analogy, think of remodeling a house. You have to unplug stuff, maybe switch off the electricity for a while, maybe you even wreck some walls and build them in other places. If a constructor shows you the place, while not finished, it makes no sense to go "But yesterday, I could switch on the lights? Why have you changed that? That's really bad."

[Animalman]

is hard when you pull a 90 degree turn trying to aim at a zombie you are standing ontop of i think when the character is bugging out ior appears to be bugging it breaks immersion because you are not in control of the character any more. Thats the worst thing. when common sense evades the character on recipes right now is second biggest. After that it may be possible to progress in a run to do things realistically and when required and not just for pounding the test out of it. Like to actually kill an area of loot before considering a blacksmith route. to play the game out imo is a state where it is persuasive to play

[hardy_conrad]

Criticisms along the lines of "this doesn't work or that doesn't work" can be dismissed because it's an unstable beta. However the misgivings expressed in the original post aren't like that. They're measured and sensible. I respect it when people say they want the game to be more challenging as it is true that once you get your head around the mechanics (admittedly something of a steep learning curve mind you) the biggest threat in build 41 is boredom.

However, spending your time making glass and clay pots has nothing to do with difficulty. So the initial point remains. It is not clear to me how turning crafting upside down and inside out increases difficulty. That's what muscle strain is for.

[maviscruet]

Originally posted by hardy_conrad:

Criticisms along the lines of "this doesn't work or that doesn't work" can be dismissed because it's an unstable beta. However the misgivings expressed in the original post aren't like that. They're measured and sensible. I respect it when people say they want the game to be more challenging as it is true that once you get your head around the mechanics (admittedly something of a steep learning curve mind you) the biggest threat in build 41 is boredom.

However, spending your time making glass and clay pots has nothing to do with difficulty. So the initial point remains. It is not clear to me how turning crafting upside down and inside out increases difficulty. That's what muscle strain is for.

I get what you're saying. i've never really been a big crafter in this game, I've always preferred to loot whatever I need. I can't see a day in this life where I'm going to want to play zombie apocalypse pottery simulator, But it's a game feature we aren't obliged to use. If someone wants to make pots or bottles, then good luck to them.

I can see how someone might take great pride in living in a house they've made from scratch in the woods, filled with furniture they've made for themselves, along with tools, glassware and pots they've lovingly crafted and sustained by herds of farm animals they've bred from animals they've rescued. It's great that zomboid will work for them.

It's also great that zomboid will let an orc like me use their animals as target practice and to leave their dream home a blazing ruin.

I find it quite wholesome that the game offers something to varied playstyles.

[Vashimu]

Originally posted by Percavil:

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

I can't imagine any scenario where a survivor of a zombie apocalypse will spend his time making glass.

Ya thats a good point, adding these things like "making clay pots" (when theres already tons of pots and dishes to loot) Seems like a waste of development resources.

Although those little things don't ruin the balance, it's nice to have little things added but NPCs should be a top priority instead of these meaningless things.

It's the #1 requested feature. But instead, so much time developing blacksmith and clay pot crafting.

i makes sense when u play years later/with super low loot. I love to play like this and i want that i can craft pretty much everything myself.

[[Censored]]

i love everything they did - and im gonna love everything they do going forward.... i hope they dont listen to you guys

[Dragon_Dude1]

I think it's because these devs don't actually know what they are doing with their game really. There is no sense in half of the decisions they make. This game lacks content if you really delve into it. once you have a safehouse and weapons, there's not much else to do. Those who spend hundreds of hours on a single save doing the same resource runs try to justify it (or have way too much free time, yeah I mean you with the 700+ hours.) to avoid seeing that the game is good, but overshadowed by slow and lazy devs who struggle with even the basics of the bare minimum. NPC mods have existed for quite some time now and they work well, and yet we still have yet to see it in vanilla. Instead of bundling years worth of content into a single update, they should be trickle feeding it into the game, to keep players interested and looking for more.