A long-winded critique about Project Zomboid and the progress of its development

[Undefined]

I quit playing last year and decided to just wait for NPCs to be released, knowing that it would be a long time (more than a year).

Nearly a year later, I came back to see how the progress of the game was going.

Needless to say, I'm very disapointed. We're not even in B42 yet which, at the time, I considered to be a huge waste of developer resources that would not add replay value to the game, but I thought it'd be okay once they released it because that means B43 (NPCs Stage 1) would be closer. Well, it turns that it was a waste of developer resources, but even I couldn't have imagined just how much it would be that it would still have not have been released by now.

Also, we were told that B41 was an anomaly of sorts because the development was delayed significantly by one of the developers being sick, and that later builds would be released faster. And around the time I left, we were told that B41 was pretty much wrapped up and most of the dev team was working on B42. Well, 3/4ths of the way in to 2023, we're still stuck on B41, with no signs of B42 being released any time soon.

Project Zomboid was released in 2013 on Steam, it has existed longer than that, and the last update (according to Steam) was 243 days ago.

If you go through the News section, you will find plenty of videos and posts about how (supposedly) the game is progressing, but, as mentioned above, the game hasn't been updated in 8 months.

It's safe to say that B42 and future updates are now officially Vaporware. We might get little teasers here and there, but it's not going to be released for a long time, if at all.

I think this game has a lot of potential, the soundtrack is great, the gameplay is fun, but there's really nothing to do once you become self-sustainable, which is about 2-4 weeks into the apocalypse. After that, there is no need to go outside your base other than to get gasoline for your generator.

NPCs would've brought so much life and possibilities to this game and added much needed adventure and risk. But, for some reason, they were put on the backburner in favor of farm animals, crafting, and other things that don't add replay value. I know, I know, "farm animals are NPCs," but they're not the NPCs that people normally think or care about.

After seeing how the game is still in the state that I left it, I would've been much more excited to come back and hear that Project Zomboid 2 was in the works.

I know the devs said that they would deliver on all the promises they made for Project Zomboid but, after 10 years, I think it's safe to say you can't keep your promises.

And that's okay. We know you tried. Very few people will fault you. The game is in a playable state and is worth more than the $20 it sells for.

However, the worst thing you can do is to continue trying to keep your promises while not making any progress at all. Promises that are repeated, that can't be kept, become lies at some point. I don't think you were lying when you made those promises, but I think you are lying if you continue to tell players that you will keep those promises.

[San]

Oh, wow... you are right. I am weeping now. The promises... the hopes... What have we done! D:

Edit: Here, .

[Puppers]

The promises statement is kind of getting old, to me, you can search tis forums to find legitimate reasons why the npcs were removed. And this "promise" dealio is probably why they don't give us ETAs to prevent anything like that from happening again.

I dont know what to tell you other than I'm sorry you feel that way but i wholeheartedly disagree with you, I enjoy being involved in the community, and still after 2900 hours and playing other games I still come back to this one and have fun playing new difficulties /challenges,etc. That being said yes development was a lot slower back then 2014 but I think compared to then and since they have hired more people it is a lot faster.

Saying there has been no progress because you just want NPCS is just flabbergasting. Of all the blogs they have shared with us this year you truly feel that way ? I personally do not care for human npcs. They will not prolong my game whatsoever anymore than I can do on my own right now. What will make the game longer and more enjoyable for me personally is endgame content and sustainability along with animal npcs.

[Idkbrosostopasking]

Thats why the game has MODS to make it feel more fun, for example. there a SURIVIVOR mod. and theres a Mod that adds an ENDING other then death.

[Artimedias]

This is going to age just like those threads that said that the game was a scam and b41 is never coming blah blah blah.

Yes, npcs are on the backburner. But have you seen the ambition that they're trying to do with them? These aren't going to be skyrim NPCs that just just walk around and automatically fight things. They're going to be, ideally, just as responsive as other players. They're going to have families, backstories that are made fresh in every world, homes they consider their own, goals they're working towards, etc. We've seen footage of dozens of NPCs all working autonomously around the world, doing things while the player isnt even in nearby to progress their own goals.

This is extremely ambitious, but TIS has always been ambitious. That's why this game even exists- I mean really, compare it to any other zombie survival game on the market. Nothing comes close. The map alone surpasses most AAA open world games in terms of detail and what you can actually do in it.


Now, as for why B42 is coming before B43?

B42 is laying the foundation for NPCs. If NPCs came first, they would then have to make them compatible with the new crafting and survival systems coming in b42, along with having them compatible with B41 so that they could come first. They would have to be awkwardly locked off from their true potential since you can't exactly build a society with the limited crafting systems in b41.

This would mean that a massive amount of code would have to be redone- which unlike B42, would actually be "a huge waste of developer resources"- and for what? To appease the people constantly demanding that the early access game adds features in the order they want instead of the order the developers think is best?

Lastly, calling B42 vaporware is just silly. Theres Biweekly dev logs that show video of things running in engine. We know what already exists, and we have proof of it.

[Doko]

Okay this is getting silly now, with the amount of threads people are spamming on "when is update coming out?".

Mods should just make it a thread lock rule that no one should be allowed to make a thread on asking when an update is coming out or being disappointed that said update isn't out, because at this point it's becoming white noise spam, and if they don't want to continue playing the game, they can simply uninstall and move right on.

It's bad enough people are posting troll threads in multiple game forums on Steam, in order to farm Steam points, we do not need that happening on PZ threads.

[ureaditwrong]

the fanboys will scoff at this truth, but you are correct. the team is somehow less efficient than even yandere dev

[Undefined]

I didn't expect a kind response from the community so I'm not really surprised that I'm being ridiculed and receiving vitriol for daring to share my opinion on the state of the game.

Gamers are like addicts and cult members in the sense that they will rationalize everything and deny reality no matter how much evidence to the contrary you present to them.

Try telling them that a game that's been in Early Access for 10 years and hasn't had an update in nearly a year needs to move on already, and they'll attack you for it. Even if you harbor no ill-will towards the developers or the game and go out of your way to tell the devs that it's okay to move on, any criticism is an attack on the people who play the game and the other side needs to be ridiculed for daring to commit such blasphemy.

My post was clearly written for the devs, not the community at large. This was just the only forum I had to communicate with them.

Feel free to continue to hurl insults and ridicule me, this post was not intended for you and, quite frankly, I don't care for your opinion. I just thought you should know that and I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you would not act like I knew you would by not including it in my OP.

[Artimedias]

"the team is somehow less efficient than even yandere dev"



I was going to make some sort of witty reply to this, but I think it's better if I just let your ignorance speak for itself.

[Artimedias]

Originally posted by Undefined:

I didn't expect a kind response from the community so I'm not really surprised that I'm being ridiculed and receiving vitriol for daring to share my opinion on the state of the game.

No one is doing this. You posted your opinion on the internet and had 1 person make a sarcastic remark about it and 2 people disagree with you and explain why.

Originally posted by Undefined:

Gamers are like addicts and cult members in the sense that they will rationalize everything and deny reality no matter how much evidence to the contrary you present to them.

This however, actually is an insult. Complaining that people disagreed with you by calling them cult members and addicts is pretty silly.

Originally posted by Undefined:

Try telling them that a game that's been in Early Access for 10 years and hasn't had an update in nearly a year needs to move on already, and they'll attack you for it.

Once again, no one is attacking you. You're getting disagreements, not attacks.

Originally posted by Undefined:

Even if you harbor no ill-will towards the developers or the game and go out of your way to tell the devs that it's okay to move on, any criticism is an attack on the people who play the game and the other side needs to be ridiculed for daring to commit such blasphemy.

No one is ridiculing you. What are you talking about.

Originally posted by Undefined:

Feel free to continue to hurl insults and ridicule me, this post was not intended for you and, quite frankly, I don't care for your opinion. I just thought you should know that and I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you would not act like I knew you would by not including it in my OP.

The only one who has insulted anyone thus far is you.

[Puppers]

Originally posted by Undefined:

I didn't expect a kind response from the community so I'm not really surprised that I'm being ridiculed and receiving vitriol for daring to share my opinion on the state of the game.

Gamers are like addicts and cult members in the sense that they will rationalize everything and deny reality no matter how much evidence to the contrary you present to them.

There is nothing wrong with giving feedback especially on a discussion forum where most of the community interacts with one another, it can be nice to see ideas from other players just be prepared to receive opinions from the community in threads like these and have a open mind and try being patient.

[Undefined]

BTW if any of the devs or a representatives are reading this, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

My main thing is that it's becoming more apparent that you can't keep your promises for the game and it's time to move on to Project Zomboid 2.

But let's say you intend to keep your promises and somehow do, it will be another 5-10 years before you can actually deliver on all of them.

I truly believe you'll be better off working on a sequel with a better engine that doesn't have to be built from scratch.

Apologies in advance for how other people are behaving and detracting from thoughtful and respectful discussion.

[Death]

Originally posted by Artimedias:

This is going to age just like those threads that said that the game was a scam and b41 is never coming blah blah blah.

Yes, npcs are on the backburner. But have you seen the ambition that they're trying to do with them? These aren't going to be skyrim NPCs that just just walk around and automatically fight things. They're going to be, ideally, just as responsive as other players. They're going to have families, backstories that are made fresh in every world, homes they consider their own, goals they're working towards, etc. We've seen footage of dozens of NPCs all working autonomously around the world, doing things while the player isnt even in nearby to progress their own goals.

This is extremely ambitious, but TIS has always been ambitious. That's why this game even exists- I mean really, compare it to any other zombie survival game on the market. Nothing comes close. The map alone surpasses most AAA open world games in terms of detail and what you can actually do in it.


Now, as for why B42 is coming before B43?

B42 is laying the foundation for NPCs. If NPCs came first, they would then have to make them compatible with the new crafting and survival systems coming in b42, along with having them compatible with B41 so that they could come first. They would have to be awkwardly locked off from their true potential since you can't exactly build a society with the limited crafting systems in b41.

This would mean that a massive amount of code would have to be redone- which unlike B42, would actually be "a huge waste of developer resources"- and for what? To appease the people constantly demanding that the early access game adds features in the order they want instead of the order the developers think is best?

Lastly, calling B42 vaporware is just silly. Theres Biweekly dev logs that show video of things running in engine. We know what already exists, and we have proof of it.

They aren't even on the back burner. They are literally working on the foundation for NPCs to be added in the next build. It just takes time and frankly these guys haven't given me any reason to not trust them. Are they kind of slow? Absolutely, but for me the quality always makes the wait worth it.

[Snarbles]

Big fan of the game, been playing for 5 years, my fav game rn tbh, and I understand your frustration a bit.

I'd like to see some of these smaller updates added to the game more often than what they are, if it wasn't for mods I would have not a whole lot to do the past (XXX) hours. This game reminds me of a song of ice and fire, its my fav book series ever and it is like never going to be finished. The winds of winter (book 6) was going to release in 2016 and has been delayed every year to the point where the final book past that seems unlikely to ever release. Project zomboid has a lot of potential but it seems at times that the updates to things players want-want (much like the end game of that book series) like npc people are just a dream of spring situation. The TV show (Game of thrones) ended the show based on the notes of the author and was widely hated for being rushed ect. I wonder if the "magic" of zomboid would be demolished by a sour update or an undercooked release, which is why i lean on the side of just give them (the devs) time to cook this game right. If this is the game they've made today i feel like they are at the very least on the right path creatively, but i remain extremely skeptical at what the future of the game actually holds, there are entire systems being reworked that i have watched the devs pour what feels like years now into that just seem like a waste of time, crafting tables for example are the opposite of what i would want in zomboid, anything thats minecraft over zombie-sim is a major loss in my book as a dedicated player. It's like waiting all of those years for george martin to finish his books and then they suck.

[Lost Latios]

Originally posted by Undefined:

My post was clearly written for the devs, not the community at large. This was just the only forum I had to communicate with them.

Ever considered making a review, where the devs can indeed see and respond to said review?

[Lost Latios]

Originally posted by Undefined:

My main thing is that it's becoming more apparent that you can't keep your promises for the game and it's time to move on to Project Zomboid 2.

Also, I don't know how you expect 'Zomboid 2' to somehow achieve whatever it would promise if you don't consider them trustworthy already. Feels very contradictory from my point of view.