Guns are bad. [B42]

[Killerdude]

They’ve always been bad, but they’re even more unusable now. For years i’ve always avoided firearms because of how terrible they were, it was always just a glorified dinner bell while somehow being less deadly than my bare hands. Fast forward to today, first playthrough on Build 42, i read about the overhaul to the gun system, colour me excited right? So i happened upon Stendo’s Emporium (R.I.P) and found a TONNE of ammo. I cracked open 5 or 6 boxes of shotgun shells and took to the streets and i gotta say, i am incredibly disappointed.

I burned through 150 shotgun shells, killed 3 zombies and got 6 exp for my level zero aiming skill. I understand i’m not suppose to be john wick at level 0, but a shotgun blast at point blank should be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ LETHAL. I figured ok, my skill was too low and i’m bad, so i hopped into debug mode and maxed my skill and killed maybe 9 zombies this time for another hundred shells or so. How the hell are you suppose to level that naturally anyway? I’d burn through all the ammo on the map at the rate i was getting experience.

I even switched back to the old aiming system, and the results were just as bad, if not worse.

This is bad, this feels bad, finding a gun in a zombie game is meant to be the holy grail of finds, yet its just an enormous liability in this game. I’m literally better off bare handed.

The guns in this game should play like a twinstick shooter, get rid of this dice roll nonsense that just FEELS horrible and knocks against the really cool realism aspects the game is trying to go for.

In the meantime it’s back to the trusty crowbar! Thanks for listening to my rant.

[Vintorez]

Take Beta Blockers before going shooting, the large amounts of zombies drawn will quickly max out your panic and and greatly reduce your effective damage unless you're at Aiming level 6 or higher.

[Killerdude]

Originally posted by Vintorez:

Take Beta Blockers before going shooting, the large amounts of zombies drawn will quickly max out your panic and and greatly reduce your effective damage unless you're at Aiming level 6 or higher.

That helped, a little, it still feels pretty bad and the experience gains are still abysmal. I mean i could always modify the experience multiplier in the sandbox settings, but that feels cheaty.

[THE REAL CAPT3N]

It's not the same and takes some getting used to, but on the flip side the game can become a gritter grimier struggle to survive which has its merits

[Vintorez]

You only gain XP on kills, so you need to use them in effective circumstances to build up. And if you started with no points in aiming you're only going to be earning XP at 25% rate so it's going be slow regardless if you didn't build for it.

Also, the two aiming modes are actually the same, just visually represented differently. The tighter your crosshairs close in, the more likely you are to do significant damage.

Pistols are also a good deal better in B42 as starter guns. Even while backpeddling, as long as your panic is under control you will usually drop (but not necessarily kill) a zombie with each hit once they get into point blank range.

A good exercise is to start the game in debug mode and make a new save as a Veteran which has the desensitized trait and +2 aiming. Spawn yourself some guns and ammo, turn on god mode, and go practice shooting without having to deal with panic. Give yourself a few more levels and an M16 and you take really start to cut through hordes. This can give you a better idea of the potential that firearms have.

[Hairy.Mario]

Project Zomboid is healing, the guns bad post are coming back.

[Killerdude]

Originally posted by Vintorez:

You only gain XP on kills, so you need to use them in effective circumstances to build up. And if you started with no points in aiming you're only going to be earning XP at 25% rate so it's going be slow regardless if you didn't build for it.

Also, the two aiming modes are actually the same, just visually represented differently. The tighter your crosshairs close in, the more likely you are to do significant damage.

Pistols are also a good deal better in B42 as starter guns. Even while backpeddling, as long as your panic is under control you will usually drop (but not necessarily kill) a zombie with each hit once they get into point blank range.

A good exercise is to start the game in debug mode and make a new save as a Veteran which has the desensitized trait and +2 aiming. Spawn yourself some guns and ammo, turn on god mode, and go practice shooting without having to deal with panic. Give yourself a few more levels and an M16 and you take really start to cut through hordes. This can give you a better idea of the potential that firearms have.

XP on kills explains why i got so little, that really should become XP on hit instead. That would make it a little more realistic since most folks train by shooting paper. It’s how i practice at least. I should also mention i have the fast learner trait, so should i not have been getting xp at 100%?

Well that makes sense why they didn’t really feel any different, maybe i misread, but i was under the impression there was some kind of big overhaul to the system.

I will try with the veteran thing, i did play around with cheats after you told me about the beta blockers, it still just felt so random, high skill, low skill, the differences weren’t as massive as i would expect them to be. It just doesn’t feel good, feel worth alerting the entire area to continue using them, i’ll keep trying, it is unstable afterall and this is the time for feedback.

[Vintorez]

Fast learner is basically a 1.3 multiplier to your XP gaining formula.
When you start with 0 points in any skill (strength and fitness excluded) then you only earn xp at 25% rate. With fast learner, that becomes 32.5% rate. If you have 1 starting point, you earn at 100% (130% with fast learner) and each additional starting point is an additional 25%. So a veteran (starts with 2 aiming) with fast learner earns aiming XP at 162.5% rate, 5x more than your current build. And this is before skill books even get involved.

But it is a fair point that guns may be a bit too situational given their requirements to use effectively and the fact that they're self-limited to horde clearing situations.

[goobie snoobert]

guns haven't been bad for a very, very long time. the aiming rework was abysmal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at b42 launch, but it's largely fine now

[Vintorez]

Been experimenting a bit more and found that I was incorrect about something earlier.

You do actually gain XP per shot that does damage, not just on kills.

But in the new system, not every shot that hits will actually do damage, this is what the chance-to-hit vs chance-to-damage change is. If your character is panicked, wounded in the arms, and/or has low aiming skill, then you will have lower chance to deal damage with your shots and thus earn no XP even though the zombies flinch.

[Armagenesis]

Use chance to hit instead of the chance of damage system. Shotguns will at least still be reliable.

[Demonoclast]

I tried every tip and trick I could find from googling and none of them fixed the new aiming system. I'm level 10 aiming, veteran (so no panicking) I tried both chance to hit / chance to damage. I tried adding attachments to guns, close range vs long range, etc. In B41 advanced trajectory mod at least that worked most of the time, this new B41 aiming system is horrible. This is genuinely my favourite game and the new system makes me not want to play it.

[Chel]

It's very strange that panicking or low level reduces weapon damage. You either hit and the weapon does 100% damage, or you miss and it does 0%. How can it be that if I panic, the weapon will do 50% damage?

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Chel:

It's very strange that panicking or low level reduces weapon damage. You either hit and the weapon does 100% damage, or you miss and it does 0%. How can it be that if I panic, the weapon will do 50% damage?

grazing hit. just think that it is like that and problem solved.

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by Demonoclast:

I tried every tip and trick I could find from googling and none of them fixed the new aiming system. I'm level 10 aiming, veteran (so no panicking) I tried both chance to hit / chance to damage. I tried adding attachments to guns, close range vs long range, etc. In B41 advanced trajectory mod at least that worked most of the time, this new B41 aiming system is horrible. This is genuinely my favourite game and the new system makes me not want to play it.

Never used the mod, but from what I've seen of it, pretty sure the new aiming system is similar to AT.

And compared to b41 aiming system, it basically changed from "♥♥♥♥ you in that general direction" to "♥♥♥♥ you in particular". You just need to be more precise now.

[katsuragi]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by Chel:

It's very strange that panicking or low level reduces weapon damage. You either hit and the weapon does 100% damage, or you miss and it does 0%. How can it be that if I panic, the weapon will do 50% damage?

grazing hit. just think that it is like that and problem solved.

that yes. Also MOST of a zombie's body is non-vital organs. You're aiming for the head and everything else is pretty superficial