Question about smoker addiction mechanics B42

[kid_caulfield]

On a few B41 multiplayer server I have played on. It was possible to lose the smoker trait after 2 months of not smoking. I am wondering if this is a vanilla feature or if this was a function of a mod.

Is it possible to lose the smoke trail via this approach B42 vanilla?

[The early worm deserves the bird]

That was a mod.

So far as I know the only traits you can gain or lose in vanilla are weight related.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by The early worm deserves the bird:

That was a mod.

So far as I know the only traits you can gain or lose in vanilla are weight related.

You can gain and lose the strength and fitness related ones too.

[kid_caulfield]

It would be interesting and add some more goals to a play through if there were more mechanics behind losing traits and gaining them.

Such as beating smokers addiction, becoming desensitized to fear of blood or panick oriented traits. And gaining trait like outdoorsy if you sleep in a tent for over a month.

What do people think of this?

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by kid_caulfield:

It would be interesting and add some more goals to a play through if there were more mechanics behind losing traits and gaining them.

Such as beating smokers addiction, becoming desensitized to fear of blood or panick oriented traits. And gaining trait like outdoorsy if you sleep in a tent for over a month.

What do people think of this?

You sort of do gain desensitized over time. Zombies panic you less and you recover from panic faster (I think that's how it works). It's not the same as desensitized, but functionally it's very similar. I'm okay with losing the smoker trait, but I don't think outdoorsman or fear of blood should be included.

[Another Mother's Son]

Originally posted by kid_caulfield:

Is it possible to lose the smoke trail via this approach B42 vanilla?

For all the other tweaks toward immersive realism like random coughing, quitting smoking should at least yield the same traits it does IRL, like improved stamina, heart and lung health, etc. But I also like your idea about the meta-goals like self-improvement, challenge and experiential advantages. I feel like "4H Kid" should be one of the starting characters with animal husbandry now in play

[Animalman]

i dont like the idea of being able to quit smoker if you picked it specifically for the build, but if you accumulated the habit by smoking when you weren't a smoker before then i think it should be gainable and loosable, and progressable into different states of severity. So that if they did provide any meds that help with nicotine boost, then all smokers have a reason to use them if they are progressing up to a state where they are getting more cravings and coughing. But yes, in terms of a basic 2 point smoke being paid off seems unfair or imbalanced with other 2 point negatives that cannot be solved. Therefor a smoker should always smoke as its what hte person picked, but since anyone can smoke, then anyone can become smoker, and anyone can quit. Like people pick smoker because its 2 points, and then it fits the playstyle, well you can always smoke and always benefit, so even under fear of blood you could always benefit even if you didnt actually need to smoke.
Besides, smoking removes the magazine game encourages the player to believe that all stress is solved by smoking and then all magazines and junk loot then gets in the way of the skill books. And its a vicious cycle.

Thus smoking loosing smoking cold turkey, you picked it because the character would always be a smoker. Even if they went 3 months without the character would live with permanent penalty like thumbs would.

if this is a issue they address, one solution they might try is flat nerf smoker to 1 point.
So its no longer in thumbs league. Then maybe if its loosable even if picked for the build maybe then as its not worth much its like clawing back 1 point from the build for a month or 2 of suffering.

[Another Mother's Son]

Originally posted by Animalman:

i dont like the idea of being able to quit smoker if you picked it specifically for the build...

Do you feel the same about overweight and out of shape? Do you object to the idea that smokers can quit and quit quitting or is more a meta issue of exploitable attributes in the game design?

[Animalman]

Originally posted by Another Mother's Son:

Originally posted by Animalman:

i dont like the idea of being able to quit smoker if you picked it specifically for the build...

Do you feel the same about overweight and out of shape? Do you object to the idea that smokers can quit and quit quitting or is more a meta issue of exploitable attributes in the game design?

Well i'd not be against a total re-design, for like

They may just drop smoker from the traits all together eventually, if it become a habit anyone chooses to pick up and anyone chooses to quit at any time, with lingering crave effects being added stress. In the instances you were not paid to take it would anyone do it, in that instance, the value of obtaining the state of character where smoke solves all stress, would be unique to the strategy and changable over time.

out of shape and overweight can also be dynamic traits that are aquired or lost, but not worth points. U know what i mean?

to define these things they are like 'Character States', the state of the character is obese or out of shape, underweight, or the state of the character is addicted to nictoine, mostly smoking is not considered an abstract negative unless un-realistic attributes are added to it. like random coughing conflicting with sneak moments.
So if smoking boils down to in balance terms, making it less fun.
its better for it to not be a trait at all then it to be worth 1 point. or a questionable 2.
so the better way is to let it be something player chooses for the character at anytime, but not a something u have to do from build. It is just a route for stress resoluition. And its addictive route, which means that if you kept on that path, you would solve all stress thru it. but loose ability to solve stress by other means.

That aspect neither negative or perk, it is preference

i mean

they can replace smoker with addictive personality
where you are simply more likely to become addicted and find it harder to quit.
And this can apply, potentially to pain killers resolving stress, and cigarettes resolving stress, and maybe eating resolving stress. or alcohol resolving stress.

[Animalman]

all in all i'd say smoker trait is dated.
That for old version of the game, it is about role play the starting condition where you need to go get smokes. With Addictive Personality, you are not a smoker until you actually smoke. You could be an alcoholic if that is how you chose to drown your stresses. or maybe sweet tooth sugar addict, but to be smoker and consider it a way to obtain 2 points, and to channel stress resolution to one form of resolution. I'd say we are watching it ascend to a state of realism, from a more simple design thru its decline in value, and difficulty balancing it

[Buscemi]

Is disagree with your proposals.. the only negative traits that you can get rid of are fitness and strength related. ALL the other negative traits are "personality" traits. You can't remove "hearty appetite" by doing a diet. You can't get rid of fear of blood by not washing yourself, high thirst nope, thin skinned nope, agoraphobic/claustrophobic a little bit but not completely. Smoker is such a minor game-changing trait right now on default apocalypse settings until you reach 1 or 2 years in game and can't find cigarettes, so you are forced to grow tobacco.. even smoker's cough is barely noticable anymore since the latest hotfix since it also happens at night, there's maybe 1 cough a day. And that can be solved by having a tissue in secondary. So meh, smoker is 2 free trait points already.

[Animalman]

So if we had the 4 addictions

Sugar Addiction -
Alcohol Addiction -
Nicotine Addiction -
Medical Addiction -

And these are attributes that consuming a type adds to these global character variables representing addiction. And over time not consuming them decays the addiction variable.

Each addiction gave unique effect when at maximum addiction threshold -

Sugar - random drowsiness
Alcohol - random pain (headache)
Nicotine - random cough
Medical - random sweating

What happens is with the trait Addictive Personality addiction can be combined I can be 50% medical addict 50% smoker
And what this does is it reduces the Addictive stress reduction provided by the consumable to its percentage of dependence.

When you pick Addictive Personality you are always addicted to something. But it begins at 0 on all types. And the first type you consume becomes your 100% addiction. And if you smoked with your bottle of gin, then it's shared 50/50. And the Addictive player has to balance these things.
A regular player finds it harder to reach Addictive stress thresholds. And would have to consume these things in large or regulsr quantity to have any effect there.

Ultimately some players would want addiction others would want to avoid addiction. With the benefits being that having one go to source for absolute stress reduction is useful at times, as at times it is not convenient to read a magazine, it may be more suitable in combat stress reduction to be a drinker smoker sugar or med addict than it is to not be an addict at all. But being vulnerable to addiction chaos, addicted to multiple things at differing percentages simultaneously may encourage more usage of consumables for Addictive stress reduction, and it could make harder to understand which is the best source of reduction for the character.

Here we can have all properties of addiction and basically broaden the trait so it's less specific that you are simply a smoker and you cough.


This take and define -
Beta Blockers provide stress reduction
Sleeping Pill provide stress reduction
Pain Killer provide stress reduction
Antibiotic provide stress reduction

caffeine pill indeed could be it's own addiction type making 5 addiction types. Which is 2 less than 7 which would be the ultimate number of possible addictions. Never the less it would be similar to sugar. So maybe it classified under sugar addiction

Basically addiction threshold is value 0-100% defines whether you become addicted. When addicted addictions are shared by number of variables you are addicted to. So that is minimum of 25% for all four simultaneously. So that smoking a cig in combat at that point won't kill all the stress and is the lesser ideal situation set up by the trait. With the ideal being a focussed player who is mindful of becoming addicted to anything but the specific thing they want to use.

In terms of extending addiction to a potential total of 7 Pornographic, addicted to hotties reading effect at primary Discomfort, indeed. Caffeine effect at primary, potentially panic aftacks, and 1 more is needed. And you had there 6 deadly sins of addiction sugar, alcohol, nicotine, medical, caffeine, pornography
And the Addictive Personality can be addicted to them all! For reduced stress reduction across the board. Or addicted to one for increased reductio. But living with symptom


So what we have we have

Addictive Stress Type - structure
Type ID - caffeine
Float - Threshold
Boolean - Hooked
Void - symptom / effect
Float - Multiplier, increased stress benefit while hooked. (Divides by number of current hooks) This for a consumable that outputs this addiction type ID threshold. And takes in Multiplier on it's stress reducing output under hooked condition

So then. When you hit threshold become hooked, hooked don't falsify until 0. And so as threshold drops and drop rate divides by hooks, then stress output Multiplier of connected TypeID reduces alongside.

Okay, And then we make sure we can do Pornographic addiction as rarest type and hardest to satisfy but with most manageable symptom

So on consume when you consume the consumable it checks if it outputs an addiction type, which decides if it's contributing to addiction or satisfying it