The point of using jars

[GoodOldLeon]

I made a couple of jars of cabbages (couldn't test further cause I don't have more, and I have never found more than one jar and lid at the same time per playthrough) and left them on a counter. By the 5th day, they were both already rotten. ¿Is it a bug or it actually works like that?

[GoodOldLeon]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

Jars are meant to get you through the 3-4 months where you can't grow food. You should be able to find about 20 or 30 (most are unfortunately located in a single store in the mall, but some do spawn in ktichen cabinents, as well).

You need to boil them to "can" them, otherwise they'll just rot like a stew.

Oh that's great to know! thanks! :D

[[NP] Kona Kommando]

Pardon me for replying to an old thread;

Today I found out that stuff inside jars needs to be boiled indeed (Though at what point? Before or after stuffing everything in the jar? Wiki doesn't mention anything), but another nasty surprise was that lids are one-use only. What's the point in that unless it's a bug?

[[NP] Kona Kommando]

They are? Even the ones made out of metal?

Though I'm not sure if the lids in game are metal or cork (Or whatever the older ones are made of).

[[NP] Kona Kommando]

Okay, thanks. Gotta pay a visit to the mall for new ones.

[WillieSea]

I never bothered with canning since the jar lids are so rare and one use only. The stores should have boxes of them in this rural setting, a few hundred at minimum. Then it would be worthwhile to can. Otherwise, the usual already canned food is plentiful enough.

[Brother Frederick]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

Lids are one-use in reality, as well.

As a canner for a long time now you don't destroy jar lids while this process.
You put jar, like half of it and not whole in water so that top half of it sticks out with lid and boil it - it creates a vaccum inside and BAM! You have canned stuff.

Unless you put them in the stove or on the open fire you won't destroy anything. But everybody knows that you don't put glass things into stoves or fires unless its special kind of glass that can withstand like 300-400 degrees (kind of stuff to cook in stoves - forgot it's name)

[Rathlord]

How would you not know that if you were a canner? Most can lids for glass jars are one use, and don't seal again.

[Atwood]

I've always thought the lids were SUPPOSED to be one use because of the CHANCE that they could deform after the first use, and that manufacturers tell you to buy new ones as a safety precaution and because it's more profitable for them if you don't reuse the lids.

That being said, I'd still at least try and reuse them. They're made of metal so they should theoretically be able to hold up under multiple uses for at least a little while. Plus it's easy to tell if the canning process didn't work. If you can push in the top of the lid and it makes an audible popping sound, the vacuum didn't hold and the food has been exposed to airborne pathogens, meaning you should eat it soon before it goes bad.

Plus, I think it'd make a good gameplay feature. Lids aren't supposed to be reused, but you do anyway because there's a finite supply of them and you gotta work with what you have. Maybe make it so that every time a jar is opened there's a percentage chance that the lid is damaged, and give lids multiple damage levels. Each damage level reduces the length of time a jar of food will stay fresh, but it's still longer than letting the food sit on a shelf.

[Rathlord]

The little wax ring is much more succeptible to failure after the first use. It's not the metal that fails, it's the wax. Sometimes it will seal okay right off the bat but have a slow leak. It also typically gets contaminated during the use of the jar after you open it. These are all ingredients to botulism, one of the most painful and lethal diseases out there if you don't have access to medical facilities. Personally, I wouldn't gamble my life away for one extra jar.

I'd rather see things like smoking meats, pickling vegetables, etc rather than reusing jar lids.

Edit: For reference, botulism leaves you paralyzed for between 2 to 8 weeks. It's mortality rate is 10% with medical care, 50% without (but that's assuming someone is taking care of you). No one else is gonna take care of you in the apocalypse.

[Atwood]

Yeah, I would prefer to smoke and dry my food as an alternative to canning.

[Brother Frederick]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

Except metal lids aren't entirely metal . . . they have a gasket material applied that's intended for only one use, due to deformation and damage from heat.

Originally posted by Rathlord:

How would you not know that if you were a canner? Most can lids for glass jars are one use, and don't seal again.

Because i wasn't talking about regular jars but ones that were ment for canning.

Judging by jars and lids that we have ingame and their rarity i always thought those were jars that were ment for canning - with 1 or 2mm rubber gasket from inside the lid not those regular jars that can be purchased in supermarkets in huge quantities. Rubber did get damaged after a fair use but not after one single canning and even then they came with 3 spares inside as a package. But that was in 80s (yes, those that i have my mom purchased before capitalism rolled in into my country) They can still be purchased but they are very rare nowdays due to stupid policy that we do have now - why make thing that will last for a long time if we can sell multiple times crud that will break after a single use...

So if those are the regular jars they should be rather common. (you can get them almost in every market and in HUGE quantities)

[Rathlord]

We are talking about jars meant for canning. I'm not sure what you're calling a "regular" jar, but jars without hermetic seals can't be used to can food, or it *will* spoil. After a single canning they definitely can get damaged, and you don't always know it right away. Sometimes the seal will still form (the lid will pop down when you seal it), but it will still leak later on. The top usually pops back up when the bacteria grow, but not always. I would highly recommend against it.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

Should add pickling. Pickles can last for years. One of my favourite bar snacks is pickled eggs.

[Brother Frederick]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

That style of jar isn't used in the US for health concerns relating to botulism. Well, that's not quite true: the other style is normally used for refrigerated goods or dry products.

Though reusable lids with replaceable gaskets have become popular of late, they have a similar concern: it's difficult to tell if they've generated a vacuum, because of the rigidit lid. Not really sure they were common in 1993.

Fun fact is that they were popular in my country before mid 90s... Now we have mostly those regular ones which we call twist type.

On those canning ones - when there was no vaccum inside was easy to see - the lid would just pop-off because that was only force that was holding in.

Originally posted by Rathlord:

We are talking about jars meant for canning. I'm not sure what you're calling a "regular" jar, but jars without hermetic seals can't be used to can food, or it *will* spoil. After a single canning they definitely can get damaged, and you don't always know it right away. Sometimes the seal will still form (the lid will pop down when you seal it), but it will still leak later on. The top usually pops back up when the bacteria grow, but not always. I would highly recommend against it.

Regular - jars that you twist-off lid to open a jar like on sauces and they can still be used multiple times as long as you don't pry open (as wierd as it sounds sometimes you needed to get some air inside to being able to open them) lid to get to stuff inside of jar. Although they have tendency to break rather commonly when you pry them. Those aren't exacly meant for canning rather for storing stuff like flour or salt in them but they still - if need arises -can be used for that.

Way to check if a jar is hermetic was simple - turn it upside down and let them say this way some some time and check for leakings and not only watching central part of the lid if it's sucked inside.
About bacterias - when they are present they produce gases, its a common knowledge (or at least i havent heard about any living organisms that aint producing them when they are living)

Also if sealing was unsuccesful and somehow we didn't notice that the jar would contain inside a mold - a big, fat, nice and juicy coat of mold on stuff that is inside the jar.

Like i've said before i thought those jars in PZ were those special ones due to they rarity only icon would be like a jar that everybody knows how it looks and it was my mistake. (just like crowbar and roling pin look like a b/bat when equipped)



But enough of this - we do have twist-type jars in PZ and they can be used for canning, they can be demaged in the process - and now im okay with this. Although they could be more common because so far after covering almost half of WP i found 3 lids and 2 jars (or 2 lids and 3 jars...)

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

Originally posted by Cool Beans:

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

That style of jar isn't used in the US for health concerns relating to botulism. Well, that's not quite true: the other style is normally used for refrigerated goods or dry products.

Though reusable lids with replaceable gaskets have become popular of late, they have a similar concern: it's difficult to tell if they've generated a vacuum, because of the rigidit lid. Not really sure they were common in 1993.

Fun fact is that they were popular in my country before mid 90s... Now we have mostly those regular ones which we call twist type.

On those canning ones - when there was no vaccum inside was easy to see - the lid would just pop-off because that was only force that was holding in.

Originally posted by Rathlord:

We are talking about jars meant for canning. I'm not sure what you're calling a "regular" jar, but jars without hermetic seals can't be used to can food, or it *will* spoil. After a single canning they definitely can get damaged, and you don't always know it right away. Sometimes the seal will still form (the lid will pop down when you seal it), but it will still leak later on. The top usually pops back up when the bacteria grow, but not always. I would highly recommend against it.

Regular - jars that you twist-off lid to open a jar like on sauces and they can still be used multiple times as long as you don't pry open (as wierd as it sounds sometimes you needed to get some air inside to being able to open them) lid to get to stuff inside of jar. Although they have tendency to break rather commonly when you pry them. Those aren't exacly meant for canning rather for storing stuff like flour or salt in them but they still - if need arises -can be used for that.

Way to check if a jar is hermetic was simple - turn it upside down and let them say this way some some time and check for leakings and not only watching central part of the lid if it's sucked inside.
About bacterias - when they are present they produce gases, its a common knowledge (or at least i havent heard about any living organisms that aint producing them when they are living)

Also if sealing was unsuccesful and somehow we didn't notice that the jar would contain inside a mold - a big, fat, nice and juicy coat of mold on stuff that is inside the jar.

Like i've said before i thought those jars in PZ were those special ones due to they rarity only icon would be like a jar that everybody knows how it looks and it was my mistake. (just like crowbar and roling pin look like a b/bat when equipped)



But enough of this - we do have twist-type jars in PZ and they can be used for canning, they can be demaged in the process - and now im okay with this. Although they could be more common because so far after covering almost half of WP i found 3 lids and 2 jars (or 2 lids and 3 jars...)

In an apocolypse without the proper equipment they could can the old way by welding the lid closed with some metal or other. I'm pretty sure they used lead and that some expedition to the north pole back in the 1800's had a catastrophe which was compounded by mouldy food due to bad welds/seals on the cans and lead poisoning. Nothing to do with jars i know, but still an option to consider.