We should talk about how rare some basic/common items are

[Deco Boladasso]

What gets me in this game is how some things are very realistic, but sometimes we lack some basic items. Let me give you an example: I'm looting a whole neighbornhood, so I should be able to get more than enough buckets, barrels, trash cans, bottles and so on to fill with water while we're still getting it from the sink.

Same logic goes with items like a shovels, seeds, guns, knifes, car keys, pools, water tanks, and so on. For example, it could be very common to have water tanks into houses, so there would be a water reservoir in each house. In this sense, water going bad or the risk to have all these stuff laying around, or having to go out and collect them should be, in my opinion, the main reason for anxiety in this game.

Its very frustrating to, for example, get a lot of seeds but no shovel; to get a single water bottle in your inventory, or to find a single shirt on a house who had previously at least 3 people living in it.

So, I believe we should get more basic items spawning in order to get a more realistic and less gammy gameplay.

[Grizzly]

i dont have problems finding stuff and i play on apocalypse, i think thats rare for all loot options, if you want more turn the loot options up, thats what the option is there for.

the only thing i dont like is axes and slege hammers with how often they spawn so i have a mod that changes their spawn rates, i dont want to loot 5 cities just to be able to get 1 sledge and maybe 4 axes lmao. i got that mod very long already so they might changed that spawn chances higher by now but this is the amount you got back in the day from them.
Edit: this is btw always with the lucky trait too.

[DarkFenix]

A balance has to be made between gamey and realistic. If we were to go by pure realism, every house would contain weeks' worth of food, dozens of weapons and tools, piles of clothes, and enough random junk that it'd take half an hour to sort through the contents of one closet.

Project Zomboid is a game. Realistic or not it must still be balanced as a game.

[enlyre (Alex M)]

Btw raided like 30 houses in the neighborhood and only was able to find a single almost fully used matches box on one of the Z's. Anyone else finding trouble looking for matchboxes/lighters?

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by enlyre:

Btw raided like 30 houses in the neighborhood and only was able to find a single almost fully used matches box on one of the Z's. Anyone else finding trouble looking for matchboxes/lighters?

My usual source for those is car glove compartments, zombies, and gas stations.

[Korhal]

You could simply change the loot settings.
Personally, even with a mod setting the games items to "incredible rare" you basically have more than enough food for ages after pillaging a few houses.
Besides that: What are you actually supposed to do, rather than looking for certain items/stuff?

The game in the end is rather easy, once you find a single tool for grabbing worms, being able to fish and making a fire.

If you go for base building solely, than just use the "Builder"-mode, which is totally fine and fun for its own.

I partly agree on the logical side of this argument, yet its still a game and its highly customizable for your own likink, with or without mods.

[GΔЯGØYLΞ'ร BITE]

I definitely wouldn't call PZ realistic at all. It's an amazing game and it's fun but it's the opposite of realistic

[ProtecTron]

Maybe we should talk about placing a LITE version of "CUSTOM SANDBOX" mode at the top of the game-modes list. Encouraging new players to quickly get into basic settings wich have the highest impact on gameplay:

Burglar as default - Zombie speed/thoughness - Food/Weapons/Ammo rarity.

There, with those three simple options you can actually choose how to die. Also new players can use cars from start. Besides that, the tutorial doesn't help with vehicles, it just doesn't mention them, and as far as I know, they are the most game changing mechanic so far.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

[...]
Its very frustrating to, for example, get a lot of seeds but no shovel; to get a single water bottle in your inventory, or to find a single shirt on a house who had previously at least 3 people living in it.

So, I believe we should get more basic items spawning in order to get a more realistic and less gammy gameplay.

I'm at 460 hours now and I can't find the joy of playing with all loot settings at "rare" or below... I've tried and it's not "more challenging" it just takes more time. Same goes to "multi-hit" or normal 1 hitting with any melee weapon, even with huge shovels. It just takes a bit more time to back up and slain one zed at a time.

Well, multihit is debatable, but not finding a spoon (classified as "other") in every house is plain masochism.

[Siodog]

I play on extremely rare loot and find stuff no problem. You wanna change loot settings? adjust them simple as that bro

[Deco Boladasso]

Originally posted by Underestimated:

i dont have problems finding stuff and i play on apocalypse, i think thats rare for all loot options, if you want more turn the loot options up, thats what the option is there for.

Its not about getting more stuff, its about getting more realistic results while looking for stuff.

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

A balance has to be made between gamey and realistic. If we were to go by pure realism, every house would contain weeks' worth of food, dozens of weapons and tools, piles of clothes, and enough random junk that it'd take half an hour to sort through the contents of one closet.

That's the point: we could assume that houses would have less food, due to the apocalypse and so on; but by realistic I mean I shouldn't have any trouble to get a bucket, a knife, a shovel, pans, and so on. It would be nicer to have spoons, forks and knifes in each kitchen; it would be nice to get a trash can that I could use to store water, or use as an over in late game. In this sense, you would: i)get the things you need that you know they exist in some places, not spending time looking in many houses for a spoon, a match or a knife; ii)be able to really get some water and plant some food like its not a big deal; iii)getting a more eerie relationship with zombies, once you notice that you still need supplies (like fuel to keep yourself warm and clean your water) and you need to go get them with zombies around.

This way, yeah there would be more junk around, but you would really have a survival horror, due to the fact you would get bored a lot and then need to go get more stuff. Once the needs are about more specialized items, going for more urban areas is a must in the long run. Getting bitten looking for antibiotics because you hurt yourself is fun. Dying from starvation or cold because you were sick and knew you couldn't face the horde outside is fun. Getting bitten while looking for a spoon after searching 10 houses, that's not funny.

Originally posted by enlyre:

Btw raided like 30 houses in the neighborhood and only was able to find a single almost fully used matches box on one of the Z's. Anyone else finding trouble looking for matchboxes/lighters?

Yes and that's just the game being unbalanced. These items should spawn more; at least one in each three kitchens should have a match.

Originally posted by ProtecTron:

I've tried and it's not "more challenging" it just takes more time. Same goes to "multi-hit" or normal 1 hitting with any melee weapon, even with huge shovels. It just takes a bit more time to back up and slain one zed at a time.
Well, multihit is debatable, but not finding a spoon (classified as "other") in every house is plain masochism.

Exactly. I don't want more items in order to get an easier game, I just think its unballanced in its current form. Its just random spam.

[GamerBear]

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

i)get the things you need that you know they exist in some places, not spending time looking in many houses for a spoon, a match or a knife

The problem is, with more "realistic" loot, you'd get to the end game very quickly. and if we want more "realistic" loot, then why not other things - such as more realistic encumbrance (you aren't moving that fridge or cast-iron stove by yourself) or how long it takes for gardens to grow or that realistically, reading a magazine about generators isn't going to necessarily give you the information to hook it up to a house or outside of a gas station.

And you do kinda know what places will have what - what stores will have tools vs. food, where the best place to look for books and magazines are, etc.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

ii)be able to really get some water and plant some food like its not a big deal;

I honestly don't know how it's a big deal now. No game, even on rare settings, do I struggle to find a water container before the end of day 1, and I have some sort seed packet by the end of the week at worst if I wasn't actively seeking it out.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

iii)getting a more eerie relationship with zombies, once you notice that you still need supplies (like fuel to keep yourself warm and clean your water) and you need to go get them with zombies around.

But you wouldn't. If you secure an area (potentially one that is nearly completely fenced off), build your rain barrels, set up some compost bins, and just let the trees in the area naturally grow - you'll have all the fuel to stay warm during the winter you need.

As it stands now, even with rarest loot settings, I can spawn in riverside, go to the gated community, clear it out, build some walls and practically never see a zombie again.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

This way, yeah there would be more junk around, but you would really have a survival horror, due to the fact you would get bored a lot and then need to go get more stuff.

I don't see how I would need to get more stuff. As it stands now - I'm usually set by the end of the first two weeks. I have grinded my carpentry to at least 4 to build water barrels. I have a few seeds and a garden started. I've secured something as a base.

More realistic loot. I'd be more than set in that same time frame.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Once the needs are about more specialized items, going for more urban areas is a must in the long run. Getting bitten looking for antibiotics because you hurt yourself is fun.

How would I hurt myself to need antibiotics? This is a serious question - if I have more realistic access to loot, I'm not going to need to venture out much. Realistically - using riverside as an example - one of the houses in the gated community are going to have antibiotics in it. Someone had leftover from when they were sick.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Dying from starvation or cold because you were sick and knew you couldn't face the horde outside is fun.

Between gardening, foraging, fishing, and trapping - why would I be starving?

Why would I be freezing? Why would I be sick? It is not hard with current loot settings to get enough clothing to survive winter, and if I take one of the houses that has a fireplace, I'm going to easily be able to stay warm during the winter.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Getting bitten while looking for a spoon after searching 10 houses, that's not funny.

Why are you even looking for a spoon? (I'm hoping it's just an extreme example)


Don't get me wrong OP - I understand where you're coming from, but it's one of those things where you have to be careful of how much realism you are looking for, too much I think would just ruin the experience.

Perhaps mods and tweaking settings would be sufficient for you.

[Lost Latios]

Originally posted by Ocular:

I definitely wouldn't call PZ realistic at all. It's an amazing game and it's fun but it's the opposite of realistic

Opposite? If that's how you feel I can't see any game to date that is realistic.

[=JpS=Red5]

Just keep i mind that PZ is still early access. Loot randomization is something they can do at any time and often takes several iterations to find a nice balance. No doubt they will do a final sweep when it goes gold.

The one item that is much more rare than it should be is vinegar (for canning). I can see people running out the door with food, clothes, and weapons...but no one realizes that the forgot the vinegar. :)

[Retro]

Originally posted by Ocular:

I definitely wouldn't call PZ realistic at all. It's an amazing game and it's fun but it's the opposite of realistic

I'd say in general it's realistic, obviously nothing can be 100% realistic. But for you to say it's the "opposite" of realistic, I would like to see some examples, and not just 2 or 3 complaints you have about the game.

[Deco Boladasso]

Originally posted by Aurick:

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

i)get the things you need that you know they exist in some places, not spending time looking in many houses for a spoon, a match or a knife

The problem is, with more "realistic" loot, you'd get to the end game very quickly. and if we want more "realistic" loot, then why not other things - such as more realistic encumbrance (you aren't moving that fridge or cast-iron stove by yourself) or how long it takes for gardens to grow or that realistically, reading a magazine about generators isn't going to necessarily give you the information to hook it up to a house or outside of a gas station.

And you do kinda know what places will have what - what stores will have tools vs. food, where the best place to look for books and magazines are, etc.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

ii)be able to really get some water and plant some food like its not a big deal;

I honestly don't know how it's a big deal now. No game, even on rare settings, do I struggle to find a water container before the end of day 1, and I have some sort seed packet by the end of the week at worst if I wasn't actively seeking it out.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

iii)getting a more eerie relationship with zombies, once you notice that you still need supplies (like fuel to keep yourself warm and clean your water) and you need to go get them with zombies around.

But you wouldn't. If you secure an area (potentially one that is nearly completely fenced off), build your rain barrels, set up some compost bins, and just let the trees in the area naturally grow - you'll have all the fuel to stay warm during the winter you need.

As it stands now, even with rarest loot settings, I can spawn in riverside, go to the gated community, clear it out, build some walls and practically never see a zombie again.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

This way, yeah there would be more junk around, but you would really have a survival horror, due to the fact you would get bored a lot and then need to go get more stuff.

I don't see how I would need to get more stuff. As it stands now - I'm usually set by the end of the first two weeks. I have grinded my carpentry to at least 4 to build water barrels. I have a few seeds and a garden started. I've secured something as a base.

More realistic loot. I'd be more than set in that same time frame.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Once the needs are about more specialized items, going for more urban areas is a must in the long run. Getting bitten looking for antibiotics because you hurt yourself is fun.

How would I hurt myself to need antibiotics? This is a serious question - if I have more realistic access to loot, I'm not going to need to venture out much. Realistically - using riverside as an example - one of the houses in the gated community are going to have antibiotics in it. Someone had leftover from when they were sick.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Dying from starvation or cold because you were sick and knew you couldn't face the horde outside is fun.

Between gardening, foraging, fishing, and trapping - why would I be starving?

Why would I be freezing? Why would I be sick? It is not hard with current loot settings to get enough clothing to survive winter, and if I take one of the houses that has a fireplace, I'm going to easily be able to stay warm during the winter.

Originally posted by Deco Boladasso:

Getting bitten while looking for a spoon after searching 10 houses, that's not funny.

Why are you even looking for a spoon? (I'm hoping it's just an extreme example)


Don't get me wrong OP - I understand where you're coming from, but it's one of those things where you have to be careful of how much realism you are looking for, too much I think would just ruin the experience.

Perhaps mods and tweaking settings would be sufficient for you.

I just want commom, everyday life items, to not be rare. Matches, knifes and so on should be easier to find.

Originally posted by =JpS=Red5:

Just keep i mind that PZ is still early access. Loot randomization is something they can do at any time and often takes several iterations to find a nice balance. No doubt they will do a final sweep when it goes gold.

The one item that is much more rare than it should be is vinegar (for canning). I can see people running out the door with food, clothes, and weapons...but no one realizes that the forgot the vinegar. :)

Same goes to good old vinegar.

I don't want infinite food, or make everyone play in a different mode, I just would love that we could get a mode where, when you go to a kitchen, you can get a knife and some matches. For example, I got a cannibal mod that needed a knife to be able to cut the meat. I went on 3 playthroughs where I couldn't use it because, you guessed it, there were no knives to find. Same goes to having a smoker that can't find matches.

[GΔЯGØYLΞ'ร BITE]

Originally posted by Retro:

Originally posted by Ocular:

I definitely wouldn't call PZ realistic at all. It's an amazing game and it's fun but it's the opposite of realistic

I'd say in general it's realistic, obviously nothing can be 100% realistic. But for you to say it's the "opposite" of realistic, I would like to see some examples, and not just 2 or 3 complaints you have about the game.

I'm aware it's a video game and there are limitations. I'm not going to stop what I'm doing to make a big list of things for one random person's enjoyment on the internet for web points.