Weapon xp

[I Am A Giant Cookie]

Is it worth it to fight with a weapon just for the sake of building weapon xp? And do I earn the same amount of xp per hit no matter what, or do hits that do more damage/killing blow/etc give more xp?

More concretely, to take short blades as an example, would a face stab and a jaw stab give the same amount of xp? And is it worth it to just run around and face stab zombies (and break a lot of knives) just to build up short blade xp, or should I save my knives in case I need to use them later and start running low on them?

[Rusty]

OSRS XP counter is the mod I used to determine these.

The stronger your weapon, the higher your possible XP gain. XP gain is determined by how much damage you do. Spear/Knife instant kill animation gives you maximum possible XP as if you landed a maximum damage hit.

[RDecline]

Originally posted by Rusty:

OSRS XP counter is the mod I used to determine these.

The stronger your weapon, the higher your possible XP gain. XP gain is determined by how much damage you do. Spear/Knife instant kill animation gives you maximum possible XP as if you landed a maximum damage hit.

Thats a weird logic. Under that a person launching a cruise missile would become an expert at cruise missiles faster then an infantry man with a rifle firing 500 rounds a day.
A wood axe, because of its design shouldn't be a good weapon, but under this system it would be easier to become an expert at fighting with a wood axe then something designed for fighting with like a spear.
In the same category of weapons you'd become an expert knife fighter using an ice pick as opposed to a kitchen knife.

I've really avoided looking too much at Zomboid's weapon stats. I enjoy system mechanics but sometimes would just rather not know the details or I start overthinking them.

[Against All Evil]

Originally posted by godsavethebomb:

Originally posted by Rusty:

OSRS XP counter is the mod I used to determine these.

The stronger your weapon, the higher your possible XP gain. XP gain is determined by how much damage you do. Spear/Knife instant kill animation gives you maximum possible XP as if you landed a maximum damage hit.

Thats a weird logic. Under that a person launching a cruise missile would become an expert at cruise missiles faster then an infantry man with a rifle firing 500 rounds a day.
A wood axe, because of its design shouldn't be a good weapon, but under this system it would be easier to become an expert at fighting with a wood axe then something designed for fighting with like a spear.
In the same category of weapons you'd become an expert knife fighter using an ice pick as opposed to a kitchen knife.

I've really avoided looking too much at Zomboid's weapon stats. I enjoy system mechanics but sometimes would just rather not know the details or I start overthinking them.

You start out with "That's a weird logic." and then compare pressing buttons on preprogrammed computers to actually learning to use a weapon/tool with your own to hands.
Getting more xp from getting good hits in is absolutely logically with real life, you know, the one where you actually go outside, touch grass and actually do things that don't have anything to do with a game.
If you learn new techniques in a martial art, be it with weapons or without, you "test" things out. If something works great (Which would be comparable to getting a good hit in in PZ) you will do it again and get competent in it and therefore increase your skill. It's not really rocket science.
This works even outside of "fighting/war/etc." for example with learning to cut a vegetable, iron your clothes, cleaning your room, basically everything. If you try something out and it's more effective or efficient, you will do this more often and therefore get better at the task.

Now, everyone who reads this can have a meltdown at actual logic and life experience, so i can have a good laugh.

[Rusty]

I'm speaking in the context of short blade and spear, not guns and cruise missiles.

A hunting knife will do slightly more damage than an ice pick, which will do slightly more damage than a kitchen knife. The hunting knife will grant the most XP on a jaw stab, and the kitchen knife will deal the least. The same applies between crafted spears, all the way up to machete spears and garden forks.

If you're skilled with the knife, you are better off avoiding the jaw stabs. You will still deal maximum DMG, and thus gain maximum XP on each stab. Most zombies will survive the first stab, even with a hunting knife at level 9 short blade, unless you score a critical. The same goes for spears for the first 5 or 6 levels before you start one-shotting them.

The golden rule for grinding is: avoid the instant kill animation or your XP/hr will plummet.

[RDecline]

Originally posted by Noone:

Originally posted by godsavethebomb:

Thats a weird logic. Under that a person launching a cruise missile would become an expert at cruise missiles faster then an infantry man with a rifle firing 500 rounds a day.
A wood axe, because of its design shouldn't be a good weapon, but under this system it would be easier to become an expert at fighting with a wood axe then something designed for fighting with like a spear.
In the same category of weapons you'd become an expert knife fighter using an ice pick as opposed to a kitchen knife.

I've really avoided looking too much at Zomboid's weapon stats. I enjoy system mechanics but sometimes would just rather not know the details or I start overthinking them.

You start out with "That's a weird logic." and then compare pressing buttons on preprogrammed computers to actually learning to use a weapon/tool with your own to hands.
Getting more xp from getting good hits in is absolutely logically with real life, you know, the one where you actually go outside, touch grass and actually do things that don't have anything to do with a game.
If you learn new techniques in a martial art, be it with weapons or without, you "test" things out. If something works great (Which would be comparable to getting a good hit in in PZ) you will do it again and get competent in it and therefore increase your skill. It's not really rocket science.
This works even outside of "fighting/war/etc." for example with learning to cut a vegetable, iron your clothes, cleaning your room, basically everything. If you try something out and it's more effective or efficient, you will do this more often and therefore get better at the task.

Now, everyone who reads this can have a meltdown at actual logic and life experience, so i can have a good laugh. :spiffo:

Yeah I knew you'd go for the first bit over the later half of what I wrote. Swap out missile with cannon if that helps. It's an extreme example to draw attention to the problem.
Getting "good hits" being tied somehow to XP isn't really the issue, it's that it is tied to the damage that is done. In Zomboid, an ice pick does more base damage then a kitchen knife. So an ice pick is going to have you become better at knife fighting then an actual knife. Or again, an ax, which isn't designed for fighting, you'd get better at that faster simply because it "does more damage," over something like a spear which historically has been the go to weapon.

As for touching grass... I've fenced for awhile, and done HEMA, as well as a bit of various other things...and slightly arguably you learn more from mistakes then from successes, though in a situation like games tend to throw you into, there isn't a chance to learn from mistakes as that can be fatal. ...though you do get better at actually playing zomboid from dying.

[Animalman]

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

Is it worth it to fight with a weapon just for the sake of building weapon xp?

yes if u want to build it specifically
no if you want wide slow rising weapon variety.

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

And do I earn the same amount of xp per hit no matter what, or do hits that do more damage/killing blow/etc give more xp?

hmm..

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

More concretely, to take short blades as an example, would a face stab and a jaw stab give the same amount of xp? And is it worth it to just run around and face stab zombies (and break a lot of knives) just to build up short blade xp, or should I save my knives in case I need to use them later and start running low on them?

Short blade can build up fast when u get use to it.
I build multiple simultaneously with the wooden mallet and a short blade, And i never have any concern with the speed in which these stats rise. I don't know the full ins and outs of all your questions but i would imagine like guns kills do net a little more xp than a strike would.

[I Am A Giant Cookie]

For more context, I normally fight unarmed, because 95% of the time, shove and stomp is enough and shoes break very slowly. I still carry around a long blunt/axe (for when shove and stomp isn't enough) and a knife (for jaw stabbing). But since 95% of my kills are just me stomping on zombies, I don't gain much weapon xp. So I'm wondering what the best way to gain weapon xp is, since I obviously want weapon skill for when I need to pull out a weapon, but also don't want to break all my weapons in the process.

It seems like, aside from jaw stabbing, shoving a zombie to the ground and then finishing them off with a weapon is the most efficient way to balance gaining xp and maintaining durability? Or is it better to do what I'm currently doing and not worry about weapon xp?

[Rusty]

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

For more context, I normally fight unarmed, because 95% of the time, shove and stomp is enough and shoes break very slowly. I still carry around a long blunt/axe (for when shove and stomp isn't enough) and a knife (for jaw stabbing). But since 95% of my kills are just me stomping on zombies, I don't gain much weapon xp. So I'm wondering what the best way to gain weapon xp is, since I obviously want weapon skill for when I need to pull out a weapon, but also don't want to break all my weapons in the process.

It seems like, aside from jaw stabbing, shoving a zombie to the ground and then finishing them off with a weapon is the most efficient way to balance gaining xp and maintaining durability? Or is it better to do what I'm currently doing and not worry about weapon xp?

Shoving a zombie down takes a decent chunk of endurance, and does not guarantee a knockdown, even at 10 strength. It uses ten times the amount of endurance that swinging a knife does, and you need to expend even more stamina to attempt a stomp kill. Also, you need to make space between the horde to shove down and then stomp a single zombie to eliminate it, which not only wastes time wrangling the horde to make space, but forces you to move around, which burns calories that you may need, and can wind up attracting more zombies.

The short blade is my favorite weapon, it pairs insanely well with nimble, as it's the only weapon type that doesn't slow down your combat walk speed when using it, and the weapons are so light that you regain stamina faster than you can spend it. Level 3/4 nimble and a high short blade skill makes you practically god in single player shambler worlds. Pretty damn useless against sprinters, or in PVP, though.

Spear gets an honorary mention because it's capable of one-shotting zombies, no matter what negative moodles you have. Not the instant-kill animation, it's just a basic swipe that can happen to insta-kill. Tired, in agony, starving to death, completely out of endurance, and severely stressed? No problem! You can still kill stuff with it.

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

For more context, I normally fight unarmed, because 95% of the time, shove and stomp is enough and shoes break very slowly. I still carry around a long blunt/axe (for when shove and stomp isn't enough) and a knife (for jaw stabbing). But since 95% of my kills are just me stomping on zombies, I don't gain much weapon xp. So I'm wondering what the best way to gain weapon xp is, since I obviously want weapon skill for when I need to pull out a weapon, but also don't want to break all my weapons in the process.

It seems like, aside from jaw stabbing, shoving a zombie to the ground and then finishing them off with a weapon is the most efficient way to balance gaining xp and maintaining durability? Or is it better to do what I'm currently doing and not worry about weapon xp?

Best way to maintain durability while farming weapon exp is by stomping a zombie while equipping a weapon. It's still a tried and true method of leveling up weapon and especially maintenance skills.

[I Am A Giant Cookie]

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Best way to maintain durability while farming weapon exp is by stomping a zombie while equipping a weapon. It's still a tried and true method of leveling up weapon and especially maintenance skills.

I'm certain that does not work. I usually have a weapon equipped when I fight zombies (mostly to reduce my encumberance) and I have never gained a weapon skill level or seen my weapon skill noticibly increase while stomping zombies.

It does increase maintenance skills though. I always get a bunch of maintenance levels from stomping zombies.

Originally posted by Rusty:

Shoving a zombie down takes a decent chunk of endurance, and does not guarantee a knockdown, even at 10 strength. It uses ten times the amount of endurance that swinging a knife does, and you need to expend even more stamina to attempt a stomp kill. Also, you need to make space between the horde to shove down and then stomp a single zombie to eliminate it, which not only wastes time wrangling the horde to make space, but forces you to move around, which burns calories that you may need, and can wind up attracting more zombies.

Endurance is never a problem for me in combat. It might be because I pull 1-2 zombies at a time from hordes, which means I have a short break as the pulled zombies walk over to me. And I never fight a horde straight on - pulling 3 zombies means I stop trying to shove and use my crowbar/bat instead, and 4+ means I'm retreating and breaking line of sight.

I do admit my method is probably slower than engaging a bunch of zombies at once, but it's safe and methodical. I don't really change my fighting style when I use a weapon.

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by I Am A Giant Cookie:

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Best way to maintain durability while farming weapon exp is by stomping a zombie while equipping a weapon. It's still a tried and true method of leveling up weapon and especially maintenance skills.

I'm certain that does not work. I usually have a weapon equipped when I fight zombies (mostly to reduce my encumberance) and I have never gained a weapon skill level or seen my weapon skill noticibly increase while stomping zombies.

It does increase maintenance skills though. I always get a bunch of maintenance levels from stomping zombies.

Originally posted by Rusty:

Shoving a zombie down takes a decent chunk of endurance, and does not guarantee a knockdown, even at 10 strength. It uses ten times the amount of endurance that swinging a knife does, and you need to expend even more stamina to attempt a stomp kill. Also, you need to make space between the horde to shove down and then stomp a single zombie to eliminate it, which not only wastes time wrangling the horde to make space, but forces you to move around, which burns calories that you may need, and can wind up attracting more zombies.

Endurance is never a problem for me in combat. It might be because I pull 1-2 zombies at a time from hordes, which means I have a short break as the pulled zombies walk over to me. And I never fight a horde straight on - pulling 3 zombies means I stop trying to shove and use my crowbar/bat instead, and 4+ means I'm retreating and breaking line of sight.

I do admit my method is probably slower than engaging a bunch of zombies at once, but it's safe and methodical. I don't really change my fighting style when I use a weapon.

Could be one of the mods I was using, but I leveled up my long blunt just by curbstomping a zed.

[Beltneck]

This explains how XP works: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill

This explains why its good to train maintenance before trying to train with low durability weapons: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Maintenance