Someone brought up a good point

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

I was browsing YouTube for PZ vids and came across some trait and profession videos and in one of them in the comments section a user pointed out the flaw behind Fast Learner. This trait is worthless when you can adjust the EXP multiplier setting in the sandbox mode.

When you think about it, this means every other EXP boosting trait or profession with those traits is worthless when you do that.

I have always argued this: when you consider the super long term and in general, whatever you're doing and where you're at in-game those professions like Farmer are simply filler. They have wasted potential without a unique to them trait. I mention Farmer as a example; Farmer could have a unique trait where they get more yield for their crops or their crops are less prone to disease. The whole profession/traits system needs to be re-done at some point. Some professions/traits are redundant. If each of the professions had their own unique traits that would give them more of a reason to play as them if you're not going for role-play or a specific play-through.

The professions that are worthwhile with this in mind are Veteran (been my go-to), Fire Officer, Lumberjack, Engineer, Park Ranger, Security Guard, and Unemployed. And most of them have something in common; their own unique trait that is beneficial regardless of what stage you're at in the game. Some are also cheap when it comes to taking up points.

Unemployed and Fire Officer are exceptions to this rule because it costs nothing and you can get 10 stamina and 10 strength with Fire Officer while Unemployed lets you create whatever build you want. I also wanted to put Police Officer in this list but I couldn't because, it used to have a hidden trait called 'Marksman' that they removed from the game. It gave Police Officers much better accuracy independent of the aiming skill; this would have made them super strong. If they still had that trait it would be way up in my list.

Altogether, most professions are redundant, this also means Burglar. Early game aside Burglar doesn't offer much else when every other profession can learn to hot-wire cars.
While Burglar does have the unique trait of hot-wiring cars and less chance to breaking a lock. Thats already been explained and who cares about less chance of locks breaking? If they do you can just smash a window.

When it comes to traits that are actually worth something you got Wakeful and Cat's Eyes being some examples. Rest are filler.

[Armagenesis]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

If each of the professions had their own unique traits that would give them more of a reason to play as them if you're not going for role-play or a specific play-through.

Or, we could have some profession start with specific items in their inventory.
Like farmers having starting seed packs and other farming tools, for example.

Considering the game's trait and occupation system are inspired by CDDA, if I recall, why not follow that game's idea with starting equipment as well.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Armagenesis:

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

If each of the professions had their own unique traits that would give them more of a reason to play as them if you're not going for role-play or a specific play-through.

Or, we could have some profession start with specific items in their inventory.
Like farmers having starting seed packs and other farming tools, for example.

Considering the game's trait and occupation system are inspired by CDDA, if I recall, why not follow that game's idea with starting equipment as well.

I agree, to make it worthwhile. Give them both starting items and their own unique traits.

[Tohtori Leka]

No. The professions are not supposed to be character classes you need to stick to. They're just starting backgrounds and are not supposed to matter in the long run. The whole point of the apocalypse is that the old world is gone. What you used to be is not what you are now and are going to be.

[Regent]

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

No. The professions are not supposed to be character classes you need to stick to. They're just starting backgrounds and are not supposed to matter in the long run. The whole point of the apocalypse is that the old world is gone. What you used to be is not what you are now and are going to be.

I agree. And once you have gotten good at the game the min maxing of using the best of the best builds becomes boring.

I am curious about the new professions they are adding in B42.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

No. The professions are not supposed to be character classes you need to stick to. They're just starting backgrounds and are not supposed to matter in the long run. The whole point of the apocalypse is that the old world is gone. What you used to be is not what you are now and are going to be.

If that were true then none of the professions like Veteran would have their own unique traits. If none of that matters then the professions wouldn't be there in the first place.

And who said anything about it being a character? That makes no sense.

That might be true for you to decide for your own self but some of us can remain true to how we are. You cant speak for them, only you.

Me and you have tried this in another thread. This wont work.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Regent:

Originally posted by Tohtori Leka:

No. The professions are not supposed to be character classes you need to stick to. They're just starting backgrounds and are not supposed to matter in the long run. The whole point of the apocalypse is that the old world is gone. What you used to be is not what you are now and are going to be.

I agree. And once you have gotten good at the game the min maxing of using the best of the best builds becomes boring.

I am curious about the new professions they are adding in B42.

Its nothing about being be good or bad at the game or anything like that. It gives us a reason to use these professions.

Its part of why we have such a meta min-maxing problem in the first place. Some traits and professions have no actual use.

[Animalman]

Well Fisherman has a unique trait that is not logged that allows Forage for Bait.
which is useful because fisherman can then bridge into Trapping.
Since bait pulls up worms. And he doesn't have to dig furrows or mess with the dirt like everyone else.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Animalman:

Well Fisherman has a unique trait that is not logged that allows Forage for Bait.
which is useful because fisherman can then bridge into Trapping.
Since bait pulls up worms. And he doesn't have to dig furrows or mess with the dirt like everyone else.

Thats more of a bonus, not a actual trait though.

[Animalman]

there are other reasons like
some characters can have boots on spawn
fitness instructor can have fingerless gloves
burglar can bring a dam Balaclava if they want
So circumstance can say that its a better start because of it but that depends on settings and game.

For Burglar the combination of
+2 sneak
+2 nimble
+2 lightfoot
means it is unique that it can get 125% for each with trait investment.
Its also got a decent forage meta.
10% trash and junk, 15% ignore darkness.
vs the max +33% trash and junk.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Animalman:

there are other reasons like
some characters can have boots on spawn
fitness instructor can have fingerless gloves
burglar can bring a dam Balaclava if they want
So circumstance can say that its a better start because of it but that depends on settings and game.

For Burglar the combination of
+2 sneak
+2 nimble
+2 lightfoot
means it is unique that it can get 125% for each with trait investment.
Its also got a decent forage meta.
10% trash and junk, 15% ignore darkness.
vs the max +33% trash and junk.

Yeah, true but why not have both starting items and a trait like I previously stated? In addition to giving each profession a bonus.

Those points into Nimble and so on dont mean much when you can alter the EXP multiplier in the sandbox settings.

And by bonus I mean, for Fisherman as an example; has a percentage of catching more fish and much bigger fish.

[Animalman]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3362700813
but even if u modify exp modifier it still gains faster
but if you modify exp modifier then iit is just wiping traits off of the viability so there should be expected problems and weaker builds because of it

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Animalman:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3362700813
but even if u modify exp modifier it still gains faster
but if you modify exp modifier then iit is just wiping traits off of the viability so there should be expected problems and weaker builds because of it

This honestly should have been something that was seen from the get-go. I understand hindsight is 20/20 for the devs but it just seemed obvious to me. Given how this works, you might as well cheat your levels in and be done with it.

For that matter, one poster said none of this means anything while another poster said after awhile of doing the meta and min maxing it gets boring. Well, we all could just run Unemployed builds with no traits at all. Sure, you wont have any advantages but you wont have any disadvantages. Thats the ultimate build right there then.

So, respectfully, if they re-worked each profession and trait, giving them actual usable characteristics, this wouldn't be a concern.

Whats stopping somebody from taking some EXP boosting traits and then tweaking the EXP multiplier to be a absolute giga-chad from the start? You can see where this is going or has gone already.

And ofcourse we're not being forced to use these options but knowing that its there and all. That it is possible to do this. Is some bad design, or good design depending on how you view it.

[Shurenai]

You can adjust exp gain, But you can also just give yourself 100 free trait points and take a ton of good perks with no bad ones to balance it out. You can also turn off zombies, Or increase loot spawns to a level of abundance where your starter neighborhood has enough supplies to keep you going for months.

Kinda how a sandbox works. Fast learner has value in the NON sandbox modes, Or in Sandbox modes if you aren't functionally cheating by increasing the exp gain rate. You do you.

[Animalman]

We were once told that the game is balanced for Apocalypse mode.
So changing the settings no longer aligns with the balance

[goobie snoobert]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

This trait is worthless when you can just cheat.

ok?